(no subject)

[cbu87cem.livejournal.com]

I have a question about racism in Japan. Has anyone encountered it, just in the Lolita stores or Onejuku? I was reading what they call 'gajins' which is supposedly a watered down racial term, but many were'nt allowed to enter clubs/bars/stores unless they had a Japanese born and raised person with them. In the Tokyo area is it more subtle ?

There is racism everywhere though. Apoligies for bringing such a topic up, I just didn't want to be confused if there were "laws" like that.Im not trying to point a finger at them either, I knew them not to be racist at all...

Comments

[strawberry-yura.livejournal.com]

I've never been to Japan, but I do know that a lot of people in KYOTO are racist against westerners, mainly because of the history of that place, the shogunate way back in the day, etc. Tokyo is probably less that way, I've seen pictures of one girl in gothic lolita clothing who is obviously Caucasian hanging out in Japan, and she said she had a great experience and that a lot of the girls there loved the way she dressed.

[kitzune.livejournal.com]

Double you tee eff, mate? The people in Kyoto are more racist? I did not notice that substantial of a difference between the two, and I was there. A lot of my friends are from the Osaka/Kyoto/Kansai region. They're nice people. They are, in fact, notorious for being more laid back than the Tokyo-ites.

[twigenstein.livejournal.com]

gaijin means foreigner, it not necessarily racist, but I suppose could be used that way. It is true that some establishments in Japan have signs outside posting "no foreigners allowed", but as far as I know, it is not a very common thing.

[thinwhite-duke.livejournal.com]

The literal translation of gaijin is "outside person/people" and is a contraction of "gaikokujin" "outside-country-person/people." It is more polite to refer to people of foreign nationality as "gaikokujin" and like many casual terms, it depends on how the word is used, rather than the word itself. The tone of voice and the context of the sentence can make gaijin a nasty profanity in one case, whereas in a more laid-back conversation, it is just a shorter way of saying "foreigner." So, no supposing about it, how a word is used makes or breaks its politeness in Japan.

[kitzune.livejournal.com]

The more different you look in Japan, the more you will encounter discrimination. It is, unfortunatly, just one of those things you will have to deal with if you want to spend time there. I've gotten the cold shoulder in a few stores. I, however, am really short, and so I fit in a lot better, mainly because I was shorter than a lot of the Japanese. (You know you're short when...) My friends got a lot more trouble. Friend A had people step out of the train line when she got at the end of it, and had someone purposefully walk out of their way and into her while standing on the train. Friend B had, on more than one occasion, Japanese moms and or dads talk smack on her right in front of her to their children in Japanese, assuming she could not understand. They were wrong. While walking to the train station one day, trying to avoid this humongous anti-foreigner rally, we had people yell insults at us in Japanese, again assuming we could not understand, and some homeless man pointed at us and told us to die. We encountered the anti-foreigner people, in fact, more than once: in both Tokyo and Osaka.

There are some clubs and bars in the Tokyo area that have signs that say: no foreigners allowed, but they are few and far between. It's subtle, but not at the same time. It's like everything else in Japan. It's all in what is not said. It is like sarcasm: easy to miss, but you look stupid if you don't catch it.

I would say do not worry too much about it, but be prepared for at least a little bit. And "gaijin" is merely the abbreviated form of "gaikokujin" which is the Japanese word for foreigner. Some foreigners joke around by calling themselves and eachother "gaijin" but it is an insult and some foreigners do not like the term at all. It's not as fun when it's being hurled at you by a man who wants you dead.

[shinigamu.livejournal.com]

Yeeeah.. Back to why I dislike japan and it's little "quirks".

[twigenstein.livejournal.com]

http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

That is an entire gallery dedicated to stores/bars/whatever that have "No foreigner entry" sign.

http://tokyo.metblogs.com/archives/2005/01/racism_in_japan.phtml

some further reading of first hand experience by a traveler.

All in all, any country you go to, you will probably encounter some kind of hostility or dislike due to the fact you are a stranger. Even in European countries where one could fit in (physically speaking), you could get trashed at cause you're American, no?

[shinigamu.livejournal.com]

Ehh, True. But Japan is terribly rude to foreigners. In Europe you may get a general remark or such if your American but Japan is just.. notoriously rude to any foreigner(well, most.)

[omgpretentious.livejournal.com]

I think it's really different for everyone a lot depends on your apperance and your attitude. I have a friend who lives in Japan who's really short and is incredibly cute. She's also good at Japanese and isn't obnoxious. Her experience has been really positive.

A lot of people who end up facing tons of racism in Japan are obnoxious and don't even really try to fit in or learn Japanese. Like the 20 something year old men who go to Japan through JET or some such just to get laid by easy Japanese women. This is not to say that racism doesn't happen to a lot of non-obnoxious people; just that a lot of people who complain about being treated badly in Japan probably should have thought about how THEY were acting...and pretty much everyone experiences racism, no matter what they act like.

In any case, if you're just staying for a short while you shouldn't expect to see any.

[omgpretentious.livejournal.com]

I also think it's important to go in with an open mind and a sense of humor. Japan just isn't nearly as diverse a country as the USA and has a totally different way of thinking and we should try to remember that.

[lacrimawanders.livejournal.com]

My host mother told me that gaijin specifically refers to "non-asian" foreigners, and that it's a little bit rude to be called a gaijin. Not terribly rude, but rather like being politically incorrect.

[kitzune.livejournal.com]

...because they have different yet equally horrible words for asian foreigners. Teehee.

[redninjawinz.livejournal.com]

I was told that as someone else said Japan is just behind the rest of the world. The word gaijin just mean non japanese born. I know even off spring of a japanese person and a forgiener are still considered gaijin. It just because they don't have words for every nationality like other countries do. I heard it's an insult and it's not but it's something they need to work on.

[murasaki-kaze.livejournal.com]

They actually have a new word for the offspring of Japanese born and a foreigner - they call them "half" just like the rest of the world. ^^ I've been hearing the term for at least two years now and I'm fairly certain it's catching on.

[http://users.livejournal.com/tsu_/]

btw gaijin doesn't just mean foreigner, directly translated it means "outside person" or more aptly, "outsider". Honestly though, it's not very nice that the moment you hit the Immigration and the signboard says : "ALIENS/NON-JAPANESE". Not my idea of a welcome if you get my drift.

[kitzune.livejournal.com]

"Gaijin" which is the shortened form of "gaikokujin" does indeed mean foreigner. :P You fail at internets. Don't we have the same signboard at American airports? It's not discrimination. It's because there is a different procedure to go through if you are a Japanese citizen and if you are not a citizen.

[tnicole1976.livejournal.com]

well, you also have to remember that approx. 60 yrs ago we nuked them twice so some of them may be holding a grudge against that. my dad was in the navy over there in the 1960s and he said that when japanese people saw a soldier walking toward them, they would cross the street to get away from them.

anyway, we also treated like crap over here by interning them in concentration camps so we sort of deserved to be treated not so good. that said, i can honestly say i haven't had any problem with any japanese people at all. or asians in general. for the most part, they all seem to be very polite and friendly people. which is more than you can get at the local walmart

[cidsa.livejournal.com]

I've never seen a japanese person (who wasn't completely drunk) be out and out racist to a non-japanese person...but they can be rather avoidant and/or overly polite to non asians.

Japan is definitely quite xenophobic, but I don't think there are that many who will be outright racist though (as far as I've seen).

Also for places that don't allow foreigners...Someone who lived in Tokyo wrote that there are certain uh, brothels, that don't allow foreigners because they refuse to pay the major overcharges and make a scene...but that's a brothel, lol.
A lot of places don't require you to be with other japanese people at all, I don't think there are that many who bar non-japanese. I think some of the places may ban them because a) They had a problem with foreigners in the past and/or b) Nobody speaks english and having foreigners coming in is a big problem for them (for various reasons).

Japan has a lot of racial stereotyping, not because they are being racist, but because everything they really get from the outside is rather filtered. Like how they don't really "get" the whole hip-hop/rap thing and where it originated outside of what is on MTV (which is ridiculous and overblown most of the time anyways).

This guy here has a good blog about his time as a japanese school teacher, he's a black guy and you see less black people in japan than white people..he goes into racial things and stereotyping..it's also hilarious: http://www.gaijinsmash.net/

The guy from Tokyo Damage Report was also a foreigner living in Japan (until he got deported) and his page is hilarious as well: http://www.hellodamage.com/tdr/

If you do go to Japan, expect some small things to happen because you aren't japanese/asian, but I really doubt anything major. It would also be really good if you studied some japanese customs so you don't do something really rude (for example, sticking chopsticks straight down into rice is really rude)...

Learning some of the language is also a big plus, it makes it much easier for everyone. If you can't speak it and are being really frustrating to someone, it's no wonder that they would say something nasty about you. It's like when Americans get really angry about immigrants who speak no english, a lot of them go overboard but I can see why it's annoying.

[mach2kudou.livejournal.com]

I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO MENTION AZRAEL.
he is my hero ;o;

GAIJIN LOLI SMASH

[galaxy-soup.livejournal.com]

I agree with [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]- the way you look and act does affect your treatment in any country. Even in america, people who have wildly colored hair and lots of piercings sometimes don't get the same treatment as someone with a natural hair color and a plain face. But no matter how you look, you have to prove you can be polite before you will get a polite response. And even then, Japan has been closed off from the rest of the world for centuries and the first people to force themselves into the country didn't seem to leave the best impression. The elderly that lived through the bombing of Hiroshima and WWII may not be as open to foreigners just because of events they've witnessed.

In any country, you'll find racist people and have to deal with them. But in any country, you'll also find polite people who are willing to help you out or talk to you if you're polite to them.

But to keep this on the topic of Lolita- what are some experiences of going to Yoyogi Park or the bridge on Sundays? Are the lolitas and visual kei cosplayers there generally friendly? I know you'll get a few unfriendly people, but how is it as a whole? Did you talk to the Japanese lolitas and/or cosplayers much? How much Japanese did you know? Did they try to speak English with you? I'm really curious since I'm trying to learn Japanese and would like to go out to one of those places once.

[kitzune.livejournal.com]

I hung out on the bridge all the time, and never had any bad experiences. I had my picture taken a couple of times, and I talked to some of the girls. The ones I approached were nice and were mainly surprised that I spoke Japanese. I got a lot of, "Oh you're so cute!" *pet pet* Unlike in America, if you speak Japanese, they will respond in Japanese, usually in relief. (Not in English with a disgusted look on their face. Wah.) So yes: generally friendly.

My hair was bright fire engine red, and I wore blue contacts almost all the time, and my hat had wings on the sides (H.Naoto for the win) but mostly I got a lot of "Awww so cute" ...but I'm also 4'11" and all I ate was melon pan and sushi, so I'm sure that helped.

[miffytoki.livejournal.com]

^^ as an asian who looks Japanese but isn't I didn't have many problems until they found out I was Korean.. ^^;;;;; but even so, the more you live there and the more you hang around "foreigners" with a complete lack of respect for the Japanese culture and way of life who think the way they do things is stupid and ignore the social code that the Japanese live by.... you start to understand why they might feel ALL foreigners are bad.

Just remember, even if you are respectful and understanding, there are a million people who come to visit who are totally disrespectful and perhaps just unaware of how they are offending their culture and it can turn into fear and dislike for foreigners. :(

It happens everywhere and it's to be understood and just sorta taken with a "sigh, if you only knew ME as a person..."

[tnicole1976.livejournal.com]

i didn't mean it in a bad way. i was just offering a different perspective on why they may act that way. as someone said above, there are older japanese who do remember what happened, just like here there are. no, there really isn't any excuse for racism, but it is out there. and at one time there were stores that said no japanese allowed here.

[earthsent.livejournal.com]

I'm glad this was brought up, as I was very curious about it. I've read at least half of the comments this post got (not all , there's so many!) and a few articles and stuff that were linked to.
I'm very curious, if you live in Japan for a long time, know the language, follow the customs they follow, etc, would you be allowed inside the 'no foreigners' buildings? For example, if you go in and say that, 'Hey, I speak Japanese, I know your customs, etc I've lived here for a while' would they let you in? Or still put you out?

[aingli-deas.livejournal.com]

The one article showed the guy who proved citizenship and they still said no.

[aingli-deas.livejournal.com]

It still seems judgemental of them to disallow all foreigners into any place just because of bad experience. Not all of us are like that. I don't see American stores posting "no asians allowed" signs because of bad experience because it's down right racist and should be illegal. It shouldn't be tolerated.

I'm not sure how I feel about visiting there anymore. I wanted to simply because I enjoy travel and learning about other locations and cultures. But I don't want to be barred from places from appearing non-asian. I love that one sign that says only asians allowed. I wonder if I said "India is a part of Asia" if they'd let me in. I bet they don't even consider them Asian because they don't have the same looks. But how could they argue with facts? Because even other Asians in the US even have tried to say, "you can't be Asian at all, you don't look chinky" as if Asia is only Oriental.

Ugh, it bugs me this type of discrimination still exists in the year 2006 in any non-3rd world country.

[murasaki-kaze.livejournal.com]

Most of the places that are listed as "Asians only" aren't places you want to go anyway. I lived there for a year and traveled to every single island in their archipelago and never saw a single sign like that.

The thing about discrimination is that it's everywhere and 95% of the time you won't see it unless you go looking for it. Most of Japan is actually quite accepting despite the stereotype that they're a horribly racist country. In my opinion, if you're polite then 99% of the time you'll be met with the same attitude.

[nessaneko.livejournal.com]

I lived in Japan for about six months, mostly in the Osaka-Kyoto area (so I don't know so much about Tokyo). 'Gaijin' is a shortened form of gaikokujin, as other people have said - the kanji for gai translates to 'outside', koku means country and jin person. Gaikokujin isn't a racist term at all, but I think that part of the perceived rudeness of 'gaijin' is because it's a shortened, slang word.
In Kyoto, they -do- tend to be a little more standoffish, but not only to Westerners. Kyoto was the centre of the imperial court and is still the cultural capital - it seemed like the people there were a little snobby (though Osakans were much more laidback, it's true). They tend to do little things like not using romanisations on signs in the subway, not speaking English in souvenir stores, whereas in Tokyo everything seemed to be romanised. That said, I never experienced any blatant rudeness. I speak pretty good Japanese, so that may have been a factor. People did stare at me though, especially because of my long red hair.
There are some clubs I know of in Kyoto and Tokyo that don't allow foreigners unless they're accompanied by Japanese. These are the really exclusive clubs - the ones that sometimes still have geisha. Without a Japanese person, you may commit some sin against the high level of ceremony and manners that exist. You just may not know how to behave, especially in geisha places (especially because of the Western misconception that geisha=prostitute.)
I don't think there are specific laws about it. There are somewhat racist laws, though - like the law that non-Japanese residents have to carry their alien identity card everywhere at all times, and you can be taken to the police station for holding until someone can provide your card.

[twigenstein.livejournal.com]

it is sad, since Japan is very modern in all other aspects, and they are a very polite people as a whole, within their society. i guess the only think we gaijin (:D) can do is try to show them how polite and unbarbaric we are? :)

[kai-nimura.livejournal.com]

Agreed. things only change if the people affects * aka forgiens* start playing by the rules and manners of the country they are visting, by respecting japanese customs, the idea that forgien=stupid rude idiot, will slowly go away.

if your visiting a new friend's house do you act rude and do unruley things? Or do you act well and make a good impression?

[rabastiancolete.livejournal.com]

when i was in japan,the only place i had problems in was gifu,in tokyo no one even looked at us and in the stores,like angelic pretty and closet child and those no one even acted starngely that we were there and i dont look asian at all,it did feel like we belended in a bit.

[kyomu.livejournal.com]

When I went to Japan a few years ago I never experienced any form of racism. Of course I was staying with a Japanese friend in Kyoto, and was with her most of the time. I also speak and read semi-okay Japanese.

If you are in places to shop and not to gawk, you will get better service. Dress nicely, NO ONE in Japan except for little kids wears shorts and backpacks. Don't sit down on public transportation unless there are several empty seats. Be polite to the extreme. Don't talk loudly or make a mess.

I did get A TON of stares, and people not wanting to sit by me on the bus. I'm 5'6" and Scandinavian looking, so that may have added to the ammount of staring.

[kyomu.livejournal.com]

BTW, foreigners in Japan have a bad rep for a reason, in Kyoto I saw tons of loud, rude, poorly dressed slobs at all the touristy attractions. Don't look or act like them, and you shouldn't be treated like them.

Apologies for the long comment.

[murasaki-kaze.livejournal.com]

Every country has racist people in it, whether it be the natives or the visitors - so unfortunately it's an unavoidable part of the world. For all the time I spent in Japan (I lived there for a year), I never once saw a sign that said "No Foreigners Allowed" anywhere and I've traveled the length and breadth of Japan. As everyone else has said, just be polite and you'll be fine.

Gaijin is as much of a racist term as the word "foreigner" is one. Those bars and places that don't allow foreigners are probably places you don't want to frequent anyway - like brothels, sex clubs, etc. Someone mentioned public baths, but I've never heard of such a problem arising and my friends spent every minute of their time in Japan trying out nearly all the public baths in the Kansai area.

For all the times I went to the stores and Lolita places, I never experienced any racism - even after saying "I'm from America." Mostly they were surprised and then asked if I was just visiting. They were very interested in knowing how I got into Lolita and how I learned to speak Japanese and were very polite and helpful. The same thing for when I went to the Bridge and hung out there.

People make a big deal about anti-foreign sentiment in Japan, but we have the same thing in America and in every country of the world. I've been called a "Jap" and was told that my family should die or go to hell because we're of Japanese descent. People used to follow me around and squint their eyes at me, asking me if that was how I saw the world. So I'm no stranger to discrimination and racial prejudice.

The ones who are spouting out "Die Foreigners" are radicals that most Japanese people look down on with disgust. So don't let your experience of the country be shaped by the few bad experiences out there.

More than likely, you won't encounter anything except a few curious glances or the occasional stare if you're in Lolita clothing. The only thing I'll tell you is to keep your passport or foreigner registration card with you in case a police officer asks for it. This is the same policy in place in case you visit any foreign country.

Re: Apologies for the long comment.

[aingli-deas.livejournal.com]

Wow, someone said that you? Sorry, but I would have kicked them in the head in hopes that it'd make some of their brain cells start to function.

Though, I guess I can't forget all those anti-middle eastern comments I got after 9/11. :/

But the difference was that in the US it is illegal to put a no black people, no white people, no asian people, or no middle eastern people sign in a window. But it seems to be tolerated in Japan, for whatever reason. Racism isn't that big of a problem in the US anymore, not the way people make it out to believe, and not to the point of rejecting customers (we are a sue happy country!). Most racists hide in their house making websites and spouting off BS on forums until Dr. Phil calls them, it seems to be openly acceptable in Japan to be a racist, while here, you'd get your ass kicked.

[omgpretentious.livejournal.com]

A big lol to the clothes thing though. You're probably always going to feel under-dressed and ugly in japan sry2say.

[aitreni.livejournal.com]

I've been living in Tokyo for about four and a half years. omgpretentious hit the nail on the head, I think. There are many people who complain in their blogs about all the racism they encounter here, but I know some of them IRL and have seen some of the stuff they complain about happen, and there's a lot they don't mention in their rants. For example, it's not uncommon to see people complaining that even though they're "fluent" in Japanese, no Japanese people will actually speak Japanese to them, instead insisting on speaking broken Engrish. But every single time I've met one of these people and actually heard them speaking Japanese, it turns out their accent is so poor they sound like a first-semester student; it's no wonder nobody believes they know the language. Or when they talk about "unprovoked" insults -- chances are, it was the foreigner who broke some social custom first.

But physical appearance really makes a big difference. Attractive people get better treatment all over the world, but it's particularly noticeable as a foreigner in Japan with the language and cultural differences putting up a wall that people have to make an effort to climb. Petite, slim, cute foreign girls do pretty well here -- everybody's happy to talk to them, it's easy to make friends, everyone's helpful. On the other hand, and I'm sorry to say it but it's just the unfortunate truth about how things are here, few people will make the effort to be nice to girls who are fat or geeky looking. Foreigners who are unattractive by Japanese standards have to work twice as hard for half the rewards. I feel awful seeing how some of my friends are treated. The bad stuff almost never happens to me. I'm half Japanese-American, probably don't even register on many people's gaijin radar if they're not looking closely, and am small and cute enough that even when I'm recognized as a foreigner it's not threatening to anyone. But it makes me feel lousy to see my friends being treated badly in situations where I was welcomed.

I haven't yet had a problem with clubs, bars, or stores that I wasn't allowed to enter due to being foreign. I think it's just bathhouses and other places like that which I don't want to visit anyway...? The staff in lolita stores has always been just as polite to me as they should be to anyone.

[omgpretentious.livejournal.com]

I read this blogs too. They always kind of confuse me. A lot of men talk about doing nothing but getting piss drunk, acting like an idiot and womanizing, being purposefuly rude and offensive, ect and then they complain about how rude and unwelcoming the Japanese are...

[ellorgast.livejournal.com]

You know, I have visited Japan only briefly, but I have found Japanese people to be extremely polite to, and even excited to meet, foreigners. All of the girls I liked to fondle my blonde hair, and I was often asked strange questions by people about what I do and the place where I live. Although I definitely agree with all of the above about being as polite and respectful as possible, I think all these warnings makes it sound a lot more scary than it is--just go there, have fun, and enjoy the rich culture and awesome people you will meet. You will not be disappointed if you make yourself as openminded and respectful to the place that you are in as you possibly can.

[clawdine]

Lol drama.

Basically, it's a Japanese thing to be wary of foreigners or even racist. It's the whole national identity thing and their culture. The prejudice can't be lifted just that easily even with politeness etc.

But that aside, I should think Japanese lolitas have this gaijin-complex so they'd probably be ok with it. Teenagers seem to be ok with it too.

[angry-chick.livejournal.com]

Japanese TEENS seem to have an issue with Foreigners - as in wanting to be like them.

I'll tell you one thing - I've had a girl from Japan at my uni come up to me (and this was a few days before school let out) and asked me how I got my skin to be that dark.

[tnicole1976.livejournal.com]

i am a white girl from texas. and i love america. i think this is probably the best country to live in. but i do not agree with our policies at this time. and fdr was and still is one of my favorite presidents. but that does not mean he didn't allow pearl harbor to happen. anyway, it's like i told my mom, you can love something or someone (such as a bf/gf or child) and still not love everything they do.

i'm not excusing the japanese. racism is wrong. incidently, today is the 61st anniversary of the bombing.