Community Thoughts on Otaloli?

[trancegeminii.livejournal.com]

I would like to have some personal thoughts on Otaloli? Your personal experiences? Please share.

Please be nice though. If you arent I will delete your comments.

**to mods** Lets just see what happens ok? I think this will be a good disscussion without flames.

Comments

[meiki.livejournal.com]

Bleh, now I forgot what I commented on the old one x_x.

I'm curious as to your meaning of otaloli, are we speaking just as people who wear EGL that also like anime, or the people who seem quite rampant at anime conventions that wear it badly (not to say everyone does, but those who have been to a convention know who I'm talking about), or people who wear EGL as a costume but still wear it right, or people who make EGL costumes based on anime/manga? There's a tons of different things that word could mean.

Personally, I'm both a cosplayer and a loli. I like anime and manga, and I also enjoy Japanese culture in general. So that word has never sit quite right with me. I'm fine with people wearing EGL clothing based on a manga, regardless of whether it's a good example of EGL or not, because it's based on something else, not the fashion in general. I'm also fine with people wearing EGL as a costume, as long as it's done nicely. I'm not really eletist, but if you're skirts 4 inches long it's not a good sign.

So really it all depends on what you mean by otaloli x_x.

[meiki.livejournal.com]

Or, on second thought, do you mean otaloli as in girls who dress in very very skanky loli? Bah, I'm so used to hearing "otaku" at conventions even though it's not a good use of the term.

[miyu-sakura.livejournal.com]

I'm letting this stay up for now because of the context you added, but I'll be monitoring it pretty closely.

[trancegeminii.livejournal.com]

*salutes* Keep up the polite patrol....

[blupp.livejournal.com]

I have never heard of it..but I'm not so wellinformed either..

[ugly-kitties.livejournal.com]

Humm... Otaloli is like... a stage every lolita goes through. It's painful to watch, and even more painful to look back at old photos and have to go *facepalm* when you realize you once thought hot pink satin was a fine fabric to make "lolita" dresses in. But I think that whenever one can, you oughtn't snark an otaloli, but rather lay down the basics for them, so as to shorten their time as an otaloli, because you know they'll be embarassed of it later.

Presuming, of course, we're talking about otaloli meaning n00b lolita. D:

[gamingangel.livejournal.com]

I don't really know what the word means, but if it means someone that only wears loli clothes to cons, than I might be convicted of that. But that is mostly because I am just starting to build my wardrobe, and if I'm going to wear it on a daily basis, I want it to be brand and not stuff I've made. lol

I did buy rocking horse shoes, and I plan on wearing loli clothing more on the weekends. I would say give us new people some time to get our stuff together. ^_^

[mayoini.livejournal.com]

Do you mean "otaku + lolita"? Is it really a term? :/
All people doing lolita bad should be just called italoli "itai (hurt) + lolita", because it hurts to look at them.. xD Even if they grow up to be better lolitas and they look back at their photos, their own eyes hurt too... ;p

[novalis-b.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Though I don't leave out the last 'i' in 'itai' when refering to painful lolitas.

[turbo-san.livejournal.com]

otaloli can be really fun, or really horrid. I think that there was a picture posted up here a while back with someone who made an egl outfit based on a character from Full Metal Alchemist...That was really cool, and original, and I think done well. I'm a cosplayer and a loli, but I rarely wear loli as a cosplay, just 'cause it's so much more fun to wear Princess Mononoke for the Wachowski Bros. than it is to wear what I can wear anyday.

anyway, that's my two cents

[accela.livejournal.com]

i am both cosplayer and lolita, moreso the latter... i don't like, however, seeing people "cosplay" as lolita when they shouldn't. it's... painful ;d especially when they have nothing better to go on other than the idea of "elegant gothic lolita" (which... the style! isn't! called! x_x!!!!!) and throw on a petticoat and boots and... wah...

i try to separate the two as much as possible... in fact, this past weekend i went to a convention in which some of PENICILLIN was playing in and i was antsy about wearing lolita, trying as hard as i could to let everyone who asked know that it was a style not a costume bla bla bla.

i really don't have a problem if people wear it once for a convention (or whatever you all consider "cosplaying lolita" to be), as long as they still understand and try to pull off the basic premise of the fashion (it's not trying to be sexual, not trying to be a maid, not trying to be gawth, etc etc) and look good.

i guess, to sum up my feelings: i don't appreciate people who wear "EGL!" when they really don't understand the basic premise of Gothic&Lolita in general. it sets a bad example and continues the stereotype that lolita is (A) maid costumey (B) sexual (C) gawth.

[makichi.livejournal.com]

EGL= Eww... Ghetto lolita :{

[kyra-cat.livejournal.com]

PLEASE show me the egl moogle!

[wildroselolita.livejournal.com]

So what do I think of Nerd Lolitas?
It's difficult, because in Japanese "otaku" refers to someone who is overly obsessive, and cannot shut up about or stop compulsively buying a particular thing. So an "otaloli" in the Japanese (although I know this term doesn't exist in actual Japanese) would be an overly obsessed Lolita, a Lolita who cannot stop talking about Lolita, who wears nothing but Lolita clothing, reads the G&LBs and Novala constantly, and alienates any friends who are not as hardcore as she is about the subculture.
In that case, I am an otaloli.

However, if you're referring to people who only cosplay Lolita at conventions, I think a different term should be used. There already is cosupureiloli, and I have a low opinion of them.

[tropigalia.livejournal.com]

My feeling is that everyone starts somewhere. I've posted some truly horrid examples of my past mistakes, both her and on the-comm-that-won't-be-named. I only have a problem with girls at cons who buy Bodyline in the dealer's room, pair it with a pair of flip-flops and black lipstick, and then turn their nose up at me.

In fact the flip-flops and lipstick can be forgiven but snobbiness because they're wearing brand cannot.

[tropigalia.livejournal.com]

*here

[lilusako.livejournal.com]

i think in the many years that i have followed the EGL fashion, I don't recall ever hearing the term 'otalolita'. Actuallly, I tend to keep away from strange labels... but that's another story.

I think the purpose of this post is to actually try and gain a sense of what people are thinking when they hear this. Or at least, to get ideas (or various ideas) of what the general and opinionated are thinking.

So here are my two cents:

The first think I think when I hear otalolita probably relates to more Otaku X Lolita. Someone has to be watching a huge amount of anime, collect enough anime goods, read manga, doujinshi, and um spend just as much money on anime as lolita goods. Following that is the question of Lolita. In Japan, it's really hard to define 'otaku' females because a lot of Lolitas that I know do like anime, buy anime soundtracks, have anime figures, etc. But then again, this is Japan, people grow up on Anime.

I think the lines of what 'otaku' is... is a bit different here in Japan than it is compared to the rest of the world. Otaku is still percieved to be a bad trait here in Japan. But most of the "Otakus" that I have seen are pretty creepy, the whole, "kimouchi warui" (which means ew/bad feelings). When I think about Otalolitas in regards to other parts of the world (beyond Japan), I think it definately has to relate more to the high obsession of anime in conjunction with Lolita. I think otalolitas though apply more to those who only wear lolita clothing to conventions.

Though I myself have even done so... (going to conventions in Gothic Lolita). I can also say that I'm quite an anime fan sometimes, and well more of a semi-lifestyle lolita. I think a lot of people wear lolita to anime conventions because a. its generally a comfortable and accepting environment. b. people who like lolita are also into the culture/fashion. c. it's a great opportunity to meet new people. d. its a great way to show your brand name clothing off and feel good about yourself (or show off your best homemade creation and have everyone going OMG I WANT TO COMISSINON YOU FOR A DRESS!)

Though here currently residing in japan (for now..) when I hear otalolita the first thing that came to mind are the girls who come to visual kei lives wearing really bad gothic lolita clothing. This usually only happens just to get the bands attention (this goes for the same as girls who come wearing nurse cosplay outfits, or maid cosplay outfits). People who don't typically come to lives in lolita who suddenly appear in lolita clothing. About 50% of the time I go to lives in lolita, but I mainly don't because i think it's a bit of a hassle... but there's a difference between wearing a well coordinated lolita outfit to a live in conjunction to a 'cosplay' lolita outfit. (and we can tell by the quality of fabric, lace, design style, etc).

I think i've rambled enough. Hopefully there will be some interesting replies to this thread. I look foreward to reading them.

[lilusako.livejournal.com]

*b. people who like lolita are also into other "Japanese" related things. Japanese Culture, japanese animation, japanese pop, japanese pop... etc. Many people who are into lolita could easily enjoy other various japanese fashion styles.

also... there are lifestyle lolitas in Japan... i admire those who can do it. It makes me wonder what they do for work (because you have to wear suits to work). In regards to otalolita who are obsessed with nothing but lolita... I bet I my lolita friends can be like that, but their personality is so nice, they don't care what type of lolita you are, what brands you like, or if you're a lifestyler or not, what they care most importantly is you. If my friends weren't so kind (and me being kind back at them) then... well i wouldn't have any lolita friends. But I wouldn't call one who reads novala novels, egl bibles, and stuff as an otalolita. They just seem like another lolita to me. o_O;; I don't think there's enough in the world to just keep on talking about Lolita. Japanese people are curious creatures - they keep asking me random questions. XD

[kurzeshaar.livejournal.com]

Well, I know there are several different definitions of what "otaloli" is...I generally think of the term as girls who wear lolita outfits as just costumes at conventions, and can either do it a little over the top, or somehow it looks somewhat costume-y.
As for someone mentioning it being lolitas who also like anime and such, I think that's a bit more of an american interpretation since we use the term "otaku" in a positive way to talk about people who are into anime and games and such...but that's just my opinion.

As for any personal experiences...I certainly have seen some girls at conventions which would fit the "otaloli" description I mentioned. Either girls are over the top and look a little ridiculous, or get something wrong and look like they really don't know anything about the fashion and it looks very much like a costume.

[ugly-kitties.livejournal.com]

lol, me last year at Otakon. D: Hurr.

[je-suis-lapin.livejournal.com]

I think of Otaloli as describing girls whose only idea of what Lolita is comes from anime and manga, and who interpret the style as a form of cosplay rather than a form of dress. Usually this includes cheap clothing that doesn't really go together, or an outfit that's not so much Lolita as a symphony of Lolita cliches. Otaloli or Cosplay Lolita is different from Italoli because it's not necessarily awful looking; it can look kind of cute, but it's cute in an anime/manga/cosplay way, not a Lolita way.

[ex-hachimit.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[ex-razzymelo838.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I dont think girls who "cosplay" lolita are that bad. I just feel bad because I'm sure if they KNEW anything about real lolita, they'd realise how silly they looked and work towards wearing more appropriate outfits. It took me weeks of bothering accelagirl to really get a good grasp of it. It's why when she and I walked around A-kon, I kinda stalked a bunch of "otaloli"'s with our Lolita Meetup flyers. It felt kinda mean like "you need this", but if any showed up at our next meetup even in what they were wearing at A-kon(*shudder*), I'd be delighted. There's honestly not enough of us, and I'm sure accelagirl could do a repeat performance of teaching Lolita to more newbies. ^^;

And I honestly thought _I_ was a bad lolita because I can only afford what I sew and it turns out casual lolita most of the time. Yeesh, some of those outfits were scary. One girl's headdress was drowning in so much lace it looked like a bonnet. ~_~;

[harlekini.livejournal.com]

Well, some people wear lolita on occasion, I'm not sure if those could be called otaloli. It's not good to be overdressed you know, and if one was to wear those clothes everywhere...uh I'm not sure how you do loli, but it takes a bit of time to get it right and I don't feel like ruining my clothes in school and such. So in school or other every day places I might tone wear some cheap lolita inspired clothes.

As for those who buy from brands intended for cosplaying or sew lolita clothes from cheap fabric like they would for cosplay clothes...I don't particularly like that. But every kind of fashion has such stuff I guess, there are always people trying to imitate but because they're not really into it or simply aren't talented enough (no, not everyone has taste, they've gotta learn to live with it, fashion isn't easy) they do fail miserably and it's not a pretty sight. It's quite easy to see the difference between an otaloli and a "real" one, so I'm not so concerned ^^

[redtonic.livejournal.com]

Depends on their personality. If they look bad yet are humble enough to admit it and try to improve i'll be the first one to show some support. If they are looking horrible and still walking around like they are the best, i say "BURN HER" *i've been watching too much monty phyton.*


Anyway i don't know yout social context but in Portugal we don't have a big anime / convention scene. There are not a lot of egl fans here either. So to me otaku lolita is the same as western lolita because they just look like they are cosplaying anyway. (aka they don't look natural, they look like impersonators(?))

Dammit, i want to express myself but my english is horrible. -_-;
*gives up*

[josephineisevil.livejournal.com]

Haha @ "BURN HER" :-P

[josephineisevil.livejournal.com]

I am going to do an answer in the form of words I associate with otaloli.

-Cheetohs
-Phone Booths
-B movies
-CROSSES EVERYWHERE
-Youth Group
-Seven Eleven
-Fingerless gloves
-Ramen noodles
-Batman
-Somethin about the 80's?

[valkyrie-chan.livejournal.com]

Like a bad, 80's Madonna?

[ellorgast.livejournal.com]

I think that cosplay lolita, like regular lolita, has some people who do it poorly and some who do it well. Unfortunately, many who decide to cosplay "lolita" or a character in lolita fail to take the time to learn about the fashion to any huge degree, or they cut corners and put less effort into their costume than if they were putting it together for daily wear. On the other hand, there are many cosplayers who do not do that, and who put together a costume as intricate, or even more intricate, than the sort of thing they'd wear daily. I find this kind of cosplayer to be beautiful and innovative, and less restricted by the fear of what others think. I think people too often have a tendency to think only of the former kind, which is a shame.

[squee-bunny.livejournal.com]

I think it all depends on the attitude most of all. When they say "I am cosplaying as an EGL. Aren't I soooo KAWAII DESU!!!" That puts up a red flag for me. Yes, mostly cheap fabrics are used, and most of all satin...and really bad makeup. No offense to anyone here, but they seem to carry around Dollfies. Which, when I see a dollfie with one of these individuals, it seems that the doll is better looking than its owner's clothes. It is like they spent to much on the doll and so, they couldn't spend much on themselves. Since I am a doll collector I would put those little darlings in a glass case and keep them from harm, not tote them around like another accessory. (This is just my opinion on the little dolls, don't flame me for it.)

The dresses themselves usually are really short, or overly burdened with lace. I have noticed this while looking through the cosplay sites. Crushed velvet seems to be another favorite...

Most of these girls (and guys) don't really care to learn about it, because they just want a costume for a weekend.

[chuppie.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's anything wrong with dressing up as a character who dresses in lolita clothes, but keep in mind that lolita is a fashion and cosplay is wearing a costume.

[bathroom-ninja.livejournal.com]

I agree with the commenter above me.

To add...honestly, it's just clothing. If they are happy when they wear it, whats the harm.

[sobloodycute]

I agree. How is someone who wears egl-ish clothes at conventions any different than someone who only wears them on weekends? Or to parties?

People shouldn't be looked down on just because they only wear stuff "once in awhile". They're just clothes, after all. I've only worn EGL type stuff a couple of times, I mostly just like lolita from a design or artistic point-of-view, really...

[kurara.livejournal.com]

I don't see what's wrong with it. If someone wants to treat lolita style as a cosplay, it's their choice. The only thing that bothers me about it is that they are making the fashion a bit more sexual and they are sucking up to men's fetishes that way.. But other than that, it doesn't bother me at all.

Actually some otaloli's look really cute!

[strawberry-yura.livejournal.com]

I have nothing against otalolis. I started out as a Lolita that way.. of course that was the end of me wearing Lolita to a con, for one thing I did get a lot of compliments, but I wasn't any character in particular and therefore I couldn't participate in the cosplay contests or anything (and therefore it wasn't that fun) >.< Plus I got tired of hearing people ask behind my back "Is that... Chi? Or something?" I like to wear Lolita more everyday, and at cons I dress up as a particular character. That's just my personal choice. There are lots of otalolis who are good at what they do, but then again there are some who just slap things together and wear it just for the con. They can do whatever they want, if I like it I may compliment and if I don't I'll just keep it to myself.

[angry-chick.livejournal.com]

I don't see anything wrong with Italolis, simply because, even a lot of experience lolitas have to learn this, NOT EVERYONE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT LOLITA! For a lot of people, Lolita is not the be-all-end-all of life. This also further states that people who cosplay as Lolitas do so because they simply do not know that lolita is an alternate fashion, and not some sort of gimmick.

We have to start somewhere. If you're gonna be shitty at first, I can actually accept that better, because then it will allow me to tell you what can be fixed. You can actually HELP an italoli.

Unless that person claims that they are cosplaying as a lolita, it is best that YOU DO NOT ASSUME that they're doing so - because they just might be a newbie. Also, it is best that you don't give them as much shit as you would someone else simply because they are a novice. You don't rip someone a new asshole at first, then that will make them join the growing ranks of people who hate GL fashion. (and believe me, I personally know a lot)

I'll be honest - I actually prefer a humble italoli than a snobbish lolita veteran. A snobbish lolita veteran THINKS SHE IS ALWAYS RIGHT, while a humble italoli knows what to change. Just because one is wearing a non-brand or very novice-looking dress doesn't change my opinion of them.