>_< What the hell is happening?

[spiralstairs.livejournal.com]

On E-bay, I found a halter top, a "punk" striped baby T, an Espirit knee skirt, a Lip Service straight skirt, a turtleneck, a short sleeve dress you could find at Hot Topic, and two maid accessories also labelled under 'fetish'. What's wrong with this picture? These are all under the keyword of 'gothic lolita' and are very clearly not. >_< All right, how many people understand what Gothic Lolita means and how many people are just trying to sell their crap?

While I'm at it, my apologies for those who are offended, but why are square dance dresses qualified as EGL? Honestly, it's cheap and not elegant at all. It's like buying a Prada bag from one of the street dealers in Manhattan for $10 and saying it's the real deal. I'm sure if you changed its appearance and modified the look, it'd turn into something quite nice, but until then, it's like saying a cow is a horse just because it also has four legs. (For the record, I love 'em both.)

[/end grievances]

Comments

[cinnamonsugar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you probably just shouldn't waste your time with ebay. Every now and then something nice will pop up, but a majority of what I see is just cheap garbage that people are labeling as egl in the hopes that some moron will bite the bait and buy it.

[thelastsong.livejournal.com]

I think people just want people to look at their crap, really... like, I'm a huge Gundam fan so I search on ebay for Gundam stuff all the time, and it comes up with Escaflowne, Macross, Patalabor and Transformers, plus sometimes Yu-Gi-Oh and Dragon Ball Z... none of which are Gundam. So really it's just a ploy to get people to do a search and see their stuff, even if it doesn't apply to whatever you searched for. ::Nodnod::

It's annoying as hell, no?

[k00kaburra.livejournal.com]

I know sometimes people will list their stuff as a "gothic" look and a "lolita" look and not mean gothic lolita, but it still shows up under the search because both words are in the title. Bleah. But I agree - I don't even look under gothic lolita anymore because I can't find anything good with it.
Are there any keywords you guys would recommend that are useful for finding clothes on eBay?

[ex-iku616.livejournal.com]

Because people realize egl is "in" and label anything they can as "egl" so the morons will go "OMFG THAT IS SO KAWAII AND LOLI!" and buy it. It's kinda like when FRUiTS was in(which I am insanely bitter about because i have been a reader of that magazine since the fifteenth volume and then all of the sudden, the same thing happened with fruits as gothic lolita...People think coz you wear a skirt and a shirt that don't match, you're "Fruits"...>>;...), everyone said they were selling "OMFG COOL FRUITS CLOTHING" but all it was was a normal skirt...:x

Although I've seen some square dance dresses that look very lolita-ish, just more of sweet/country/classic/whatever lolita since they weren't the traditional black or white or not so traditional red. *shrug*^^;;

[morgen-stern.livejournal.com]

Agreed that 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time square dance dresses are almost entirely inappropriate. I had one not too long ago that looked *almost* perfect for a sweet-gothic Lolita mix, but I decided since the black was interupted by hundreds of tiny white polkadots that it just wasn't GL enough and let it go. I wish I'd waited though, as in GL Bible #9 I saw dresses with the exact same print, and I probably could have marketed the auction better.

It was one of those rare square dance dress gems with a nice neck-line up about the throat, no elastic on either the neck-line or waist, a pretty white lace yolk from the chest to the neck finished with lovely white lace ruffles and puffy white lace sleeves that hit about the elbows. The only thing that would have really given it away was the circle skirt rather than the gathered skirt that GL skirts and dresses usually have. I don't know how one would fix that though... A circle skirt can't easily become a gathered skirt I wouldn't think...

Most of the square dance dresses sold as Gothic Lolita are just tripe though, and so is a great deal of other merchandice. It's annoying, but I don't see it going away any time soon. T.T As frustrating as it is to sift through all the posuer products, we've no way of implimenting any sort of restrictions or controls as to what comes in labeled Gothic Lolita. It makes me sad though, that people who are just getting in to the fashion and haven't done a ton of research yet might get taken in by a bad buy. ;_;

[morgen-stern.livejournal.com]

Oi... and they've sunk to an all new low... There is a seller marketing children's play-costume accessories as Gothic Lolita, the cheap kind that you could pick up at K-mart or Walmart. Why are we so afflicted?

Though there are a couple real things up there, a Metamorphose skirt and Atelier Boz shirt...

[chibi-hotaru.livejournal.com]

There is also a Moi-meme-Moitie dress. *sobs*

[ex-iku616.livejournal.com]

Even when you search for "kimono", a lot of chinese dresses and the like show up, especially knock-off chinese dresses that are made of latex and such. eck e.e;

[machinegirl.livejournal.com]

YES YES YES on the "geisha" subject. That really, really upsets me. I mean, it doesn't bother me much to see tayu dolls up on ebay as geisha, because it's easy for people who don't know to confuse the two. But that does pissm e off to no end.

[spiralstairs.livejournal.com]

It's bloody frustrating when people use the name of geisha to sell something related to sex, and the hot springs geisha in Japan are total fakes. >_< It's nasty and the Western imagery of the geisha doesn't help them at all. Whores during the 40s and 50s would tell American troops that they were geisha and they were convinced that's what they were. ::waves a flag that supports real geisha::

[calliechan.livejournal.com]

Wow... welcome to the discussion of several weeks ago... this has been an ongoing thing for a while now. ^_^;;

People want to sell stuff, and there are no rules against false advertising on eBay. So until there are (which will never happen), it's up to us to let the world know NOT to buy this crap.

This is why I try to avoid eBay. It's a scary, scary place.

[ex-pantheria458.livejournal.com]

I think the reason certains items come up even if they don't have Gothic Lolita in the title is because they have the words "Gothic Lolita" in the actual description somewhere, I know a lot of people including myself add keywords to the bottom of their descriptions so that it may reach a wider audience, hence why sometimes really strange items pop up when searching for Gothic Lolita Items.

I was just reading though all of the comments here & I know most of you really don't like Ebay but to be honest for someone like me who lives in the UK & hasn't really got the option to buy from the Japanese websites (As much as I would love to own anything from an orginal GL label, thats one of my dreams!) I am unfortunately doomed to using Ebay as my only source of EGL-able, Japanese clothing & GL Bibles. Most of my EGL wardrobe comes from Ebay & I always seems to find appropriate items with a bit of effort & Imagination suchs as headresses, shirts, skirts & outfits on there, be it I usually have to spend ages thrifting through tons of items that don't even resemble anything GL so I do understand what you mean. Also without Ebay I would most cerainly not be able to complete my GL Bible collection which I know only need to get #2 & #3, WOOT (I've just aquired from Ebay: #1, #4 & #5 & I already have all the others including #10 which btw I think is not as good as the previous ones! Does anyone else think that?)

As for Square dance dresses, personaly I find that with a bit of Imagination & some deconstructing some dresses could turn out to be really GL & very pretty indeed. I actually bought a square dance dress a while back which will be altered to be made into a Sweet Lolita style GL dress, so I think they are very usefull as a base.

This is just what I think so feel free to ignore what I say...
*Sweet Lolita Kisses & Hugsies*

[thelastsong.livejournal.com]

You're not alone in using Ebay 'cause you don't feel like/can't use a Japanese webpage. :D

And I think square dance dresses can be altered up and made pretty if you take the time on them. ^_^

[ex-pantheria458.livejournal.com]

Personaly I wish I did own a whole wardrobe filled with Metamorphone, Baby & Moi-Meme-Moitie clothing but unfortunately what with shipping, Language & not many places such clothing can be bought I can't really afford to be elitist & Ebay is my only hope of owning anything remotely EGL-able! I can't sew myself so Ebay it is unless someone opens a shop that would sell affordable EGL clothing outside of Japan. I wish I could open such a shop, how amazing would that be...

It is a great shame that there isn't realy anywhere else to buy the nice GL clothing that we see featured in the GL Bibles, also I'm sure other girls have this problem where even if we wanted to buy something from the official websites most things would be too smalll, personaly I find this a ig problem as I am larger in the bust area which seems to be a problem with a lot of authentic GL clothing.

I am also getting a bit annoyed when so many people become elitist to the point where they look down on you because you does not own Gothic Lolita clothing from the original brands, I do wish I could own such clothing but alas as I have previously said I am doomed to Ebay & the like as I'm sure a lot of followers of GL fashion are also doomed to! It is a sad fact that there are simply not many resources available for those of us living in Europe, within adequate amounts of money to fund such an expensive Hobby/Lifestyle choice...

Again just a few thoughts that were swimming in my head so feel free to ignore...

[czol.livejournal.com]

I am unfortunately doomed to using Ebay as my only source of EGL-able, Japanese clothing & GL Bibles.

Actually there's other places. I live in the UK too. I get my GL Bibles from Jamall.com. They ship to the UK. There are others, but Jamall is cheapest. I think if you order more than a certain amount postage is free. Otaku.co.uk also sell the Bibles, plus cosply magazines etc. They're quite expensive though (it would cost me more to buy my Bibles from Otaku than it would Jamall!).

As for clothes, someone has already mentioned cosmates_japan on Ebay. Also there are EGL stores that sell overseas. I'm positive there was a thread on this group not too long ago about BBtSSB offered international shipping. I noted it down somewhere but I'm on the computers at the library now so I can't check.

To be honest I'm used to rifling though stuff to find what I'm looking for, & not just one Ebay. So I'm used to seeing a load of stuff I'm not interested in, but sometimes I do see stuff that is really stupid, like when I saw a blue Adidas tracksuit top labelled 'goth' *rolls eyes*.

My main Ebay pet hate is people not giving sizes. I hate it when I click on something thinking "That sounds nice" & then see the size & find it won't fit. Would it have killed the seller to put the size in the title. Just as bad are those that do give the size, but not the measurements. Clothing companies often go by different sizing scales, so I can't just look at something & just see the size & know it would fit me. It's especially frustrating if they give measurements that are practically irrelevant, like the length. Yeah, that's useful, but what about the bust & waist? I've got a curvy hourglass figure & if something doesn't fit round the waist it looks stupid so I have to know. The seller probably thinks it doesn't matter cos you can always send them a question. But what if you see the item with a few minutes to go? You haven't got time to ask then.

[ex-pantheria458.livejournal.com]

I have looked around & to be honest Ebay ends up being the cheapest & the most likely place to find unsual things that aren't sold anywhere else on other websites such as the GL bible #1 which I aquired recently! This I don't think I would have been able to buy from anywhere else. I just can't afford £200 on a dress, its not something thats in my reach, I wasn't saying there's aren't any stores that sell internationally as I know Metamorphose does but even so there are two problems the end price with added shipping & again sizing!

I have used Cosmates_Japan on Ebay before but I can rarely buy his clothes because of the size as I am usually a coupled of inches too large around the waist & chest hence also why I believe not many people can buy GL clothing from him as everything he sells is in Japanese sizes.

I know what you mean about sizes in the description but sometimes I must admit as a seller I forget to add the whole measurements, but hey it happens. As for sizes in the title I'm sorry but sometimes there just isn't enough room to put that in & the way Ebay works now you can search for clothing according to size so I don't see how this is a problem anymore & anyway when looking for GL items its not like there's that much too go through anyway, erm its quite sad really!

I must have missed the tread about BBtSSB, but still personaly I just can't afford the prices any off the websites sell GL items for, I mean I saw a website selling back issues of the GL bibles like #1 & so forth & they were being sold for $50 + shipping, I just got #1 for Half thats price in brand new condition with really cheap shipping too, so to me it just doesn't make sence buying them from anywhere else.

I do wish I could get an account with Yahoo Japan because I have seen Bibles go on there for 600Yen & fantastic GL clothing go for really cheap. I still think EBay works as a great resource for those of us living here in the UK or anywhere else around the world for that matter.

[spiralstairs.livejournal.com]

I wish I could afford the designer stuff advertised in G & L Bible too, but it's great they have the patterns in there. Volume 9's though I think requires transferring onto tracing paper if you want to use more than one. And yeah, square dance dresses do make good bases, but it's not the same if you just wear them as is. There's nice ones out there that can be spruced up though. ^_^

All In The Attitude

[miyu-sakura.livejournal.com]

Well, I myself cannot afford to really buy too many genuine Japanese pieces. So far most of my dresses are Ebay finds, or from cosmates_japan, who sell the Bodyline of clothing that had been discussed here before. However, I think that elegant gothic lolita clothing is as much dependant on the wearer's attitude as their style. Lots of the Japanese lolitas make or modify their clothing and only own a few pieces of store-brought couture. It is their charm, grace, elegance, and modesty that makes the outfits truly wonderful.

I suppose that I could buy some dresses from Japan, but I'd prefer to go there to get the genuine article. Ultimately I strive to begin making my own EGL clothes, so that I can define my style. Who knows, if I get good enough, I may find the ability to start a US store where people can afford to buy nice things!

Re: All In The Attitude

[ex-pantheria458.livejournal.com]

I totaly aggree with you, all my finds are Unique & things I have bought on Ebay! However it does get dificult when you need a base piece such as a Crinoline thats the right size to fit under a dress, a matching headpiece or a decent GL-able shirt to wear under a Pinafore Dress... Since I cannot sew I get other people to alter my outfits for me, it would be so nice to have someone start a label which would be easily available by all who have an interest in Gothic Lolita Fashion. My ultimate dream is to open the first Gothic Lolita store in the UK if someone doesn't get there before me.

[missmeganmaude.livejournal.com]

Dear god!
All of you sound as snotty and bitchy as everyone in the american goth scene. It's not very loli-like to be so catty about what brand you wear and where they come from. Admittedly I would love to own pieces from japanese designers, but I am too tall for most of their stuff and I don't have the mad cash. Did it ever occur to any of you that the reason Mana has is own clothing line is because he starts his own trends? Even japanese lolis make their own clothes and accessories so that they will stand out and be special. Kana is as loli as they come and she does her own thing. Wearing exclusively designer items only makes you just like all the american kids who flock to Abercrombie&Fitch or The Limited and look down on you if you wear clothes that are from somewhere else.
Somewhere up there someone said that they sold off a dress because it had polkadots on it, but then came to find out that that was an okay thing and wished she hadn't sold it. Why does everything have to look like something directly out of the bibles?? Why do you all go changing your minds whenever you suddenly see that a japanese designer is doing what you used to hate? Why not make your own style? Albeit, squaredancing dresses are often ugly, they can sometimes be really very appropriate. And on that note.... the circle skirt argument... every person who rants about how circle skirts are just not loli needs to be shot. Go look in the bibles... there are a variety of loli dresses that have circle-skirt bottoms. There are all kinds of loli dresses with all kinds of skirts. I realize that the market for fake loli clothes is annoying, but there are people like "rushed blue" and myself on ebay that make awesome loli clothing and truly understand the fashion. Being loli is like being any other subculture fashion, you cannot truly understand it unless you throw yourself into it and understand where and what music the fashion came from.
*end rant*

[spiralstairs.livejournal.com]

I'm probably too tall for most of their stuff too, but we're not just following the bibles themselves, but how could you be EGL if all you do is shlack on some lipstick, say you listen to Malice Mizer and wear jeans with a black shirt? It's like the people who cosplay a "Gothic" Sailormoon, but all they do is put on eyeliner. We're not getting pissy about people who start trends, props to them for doing so, but those who say they dress EGL and do it Candide style (half assed) are the ones to get annoyed about. There's a whole variety of EGl styles, and anybody can see that. Compare Arachnophobia to Moi-meme-Moitie to h.NAOTO Blood and you can see the difference between them. I saw photos on your webpage of your creations and you've created really nice designs! That's not what we're getting angry about and as a matter of fact, you should be praised for it (especially the Alice dress). You may not even have to be EGL, you could go for the EGA or Visual Kei look, or something else you've created that goes along with the general idea. Saying that you're Gothic Lolita, but in a hot pink polyester tank top, hip huggers, and basketball sneakers is what we're annoyed about. And when have we gotten angry about a Japanese designer doing something we used to hate? The Rockabilly style is picking up and I still don't like it. Am I going to like it if it's the new hit thing? Hell, no. We're stating what we like, what we don't like and what we frown upon. I'm sorry if this is speaking for everyone. Feel free to pipe up if I'm wrong.

As far as understanding it goes, I don't think any of us will fully get it. I won't, you won't, none of us. It's up to us to have our own interpretations, but as it starts to broaden and people decide they're just going to use the name, then some of us are going to jump up to defend it.

[kebechet.livejournal.com]

Whoa. No need to slag Americans goths quite so harshly. What have I ever done to you? ;)

[tropigalia.livejournal.com]

if we wanted to have our own style, then we'd create our own style. but there's no point in changing the style if we like it the way it's presented in the bibles. conversely, i don't like everything marketed in the bibles. i will never, under any circumstances, wear leopard print, even though it's part of meta's new line.

not only that, it gets really aggravating when people slap "gothic lolita" onto every single item of clothes they sell. you and rushed blue do make really nice things. i still look for stuff on ebay, but most of the stuff there is crap.

brand obsession is actually a big part of the gothloli scene. hah, i'm naturally bitchy and critical of quality, and i can't even suppress it to match my pretty clothes. but i'm not going to apologetic about thinking that most US EGL stuff is really ugly. some people get it right and some don't. there are tons of ugly, inaccurate stuff on yahoo japan auctions, too. i just like brand stuff best (unless it is leopard print).