Hot Topic... it seems to be the 'hot topic' around here *pun* x_<;

[goth-girlie.livejournal.com]

Hot Topic, the way I look at it, is like this big evil machine. Kind of like a meat grinder to a vegetarian. First, the vegetarian has a cyuuuuute little cow. The few other REAL cow fans have some too. Once one or two cows gets sucked into the mainstream meat grinder of doom, the little cow turns into a hamburger. Its NOTHING like having an actual cow, and EVERYONE loves hamburgers. Even if they don't.. they pretend to.

If that made any sense.. I love you all. o_o

I was at the mall today picking up the new Chobits DVD, and I saw that lola-goth t-shirt you folks have been talking about. I thought it was uber-cute, but then it hit me: HOT TOPIC HAS GRASPED THE EGL SUBCULTURE BY A LAYER OF CHIFFON AND PROBABLY WON'T LET GO!!!!

I don't want to see the wonderful world of loliness get put through all that americanizing and de-lolitizing until its totally twisted around, and everywhere you go you see "loli-posers" (gods, saying that word hurt ;_;) walking around with a big fluffy petticoats under their cheerleading outfits and abercrombie miniskirts claiming to be true lolis.

We, girls, are true lolis. We need to do all we can to keep it underground. With what little Americanization the scene has gone through, I already don't like it. They're taking the purity and innocence out of loliness, and turning it into some cheap, slutty fad.

Take the loli dress from Lip Service for example- its a darling design, but this is *not* how it needs to be portrayed. We try to make our outfits as cute and sweet and innocent and fluffy as possible, while they're taking what would have been an ideal loli dress, making the top so low cut you can practically see your waist, and making it so short everyone can see your panties x_x

I need to start a campaign or something. Who's with me?

Comments

[acquiesce.livejournal.com]

o_o :::raises arm::: I agree! Petitioning time! :D

I normally don't wear ELG clothing myself, but I find the fashion to be OH SO adorable and I admire the beauty that the Japanese have put into the subculture ^^ If this beautiful way of life is going to be destroyed with the whim of a company that decides to make it into something it isn't.. then I say we should do as much as we can to stop it. Or at *least* call it by another name and *not* EGL or of the like. -.-' Americanization dissapoints me greatly...

What's next?? Decora..??? bleh.

I agree

[splitpea.livejournal.com]

Like, I would appreciate all the little punk posers if they just STOPPED saying "I'm so PUNK!!!" They're not. And they should KNOW that they aren't.

I am overly verbose tonight, gomen ~_~;;

[mmymoon.livejournal.com]

*shifts* As I've said before, I really don't mind it when things I like are mass-produced -- that means I can get them for cheaper.

True, I don't like that Morbid Curiosity Lip Service dress much, either... it strikes me as ill-designed. Some of their clothing is to DIE for, though. Do any of you remember the Rosary's Garden line? Those dresses were extremely gothic lolita -- or EGA, if you prefer to call it.

And while I don't particularly like the ugly bows on that dress, I like the cut just fine. Not all loli stuff has to be peter-pan collared; plenty of the dresses in the bibles have a similar bust. Truth is, I have really large breasts... and wearing certain high-necked styles make me look really bad, as well as making the clothes look ill-fitted. (If it's designed for someone with no breasts, well, it fits me poorly...)

I like a lot of the gothloli dresses that are empire waisted with long, flowing skirts and a square cut neckline... not because I'm trying to be super-duper slutty, but because it fits right, and I do like the darker styles. (Atelier Pierrot knockoffs all the way! *heart*)


*sigh* Like it or not, all interesting fashion movements tend to get Americanized, given enough time. Yet I highly doubt gothloli is going to be attempted by your average cheerleader -- it's just going to be absorbed into the goth-culture-mainstream. Just like cyber goth did. Cyber goth is purer in London, and Gothloli will remain purer in Tokyo... all America does is spawn conversations about what is "pure" to begin with.

Though, really, would it be so bad to see cheerleaders wearing black frilly dresses instead of jeans, or frat boys wearing top hats and black coats instead of ugly khakis?! O_O I long for this world, in which everyone dresses prettily! ^_~

Re: I am overly verbose tonight, gomen ~_~;;

[velvetfaery.livejournal.com]

I'm with you!

It's the same with gothic/darker looks in general becoming popular in mainstream fashion... a lot of people complain about that, but personally, I'm thrilled when I can get clothing I want to wear without having to special order at ridiculous prices, or make everything myself. I'm also not going to complain if I see more people dressing in a manner closer to what I find appealing.

Yes, the "pure EGL style" is being bastardized, but really, fashion is all about bastardizing, reviving, and recombining existing trends and themes to form new ones. A lot of the Japanese trends strike me as reinterpretations of western fashions. It goes back and forth.

I say, everyone ought to just wear whatever they personally find appealing, without so much regard for what is "pure" this or that, or where it was bought.

2 cents anyone? :)

[piratepantsnana.livejournal.com]

When you look in EGL Bibles, you can definitly see that there's a wider style range as the issues progress, since it's only natural than one fashion style evolves and takes influences from other ones. Even in Japan, there seem to be way more brands and branches of EGL, and it's nice to see that EGL is changing (not a dead style basically) I personally think that diversity is what makes the clothing interesting, and that it would be no fun if we all wore nothing but BSSB-style dresses. I say stick to what you like or go with the flow, but respect other people's styles and opinions no matter what you do :)

[lyekka.livejournal.com]

i would most certainly hate to see EGL pulled into the americanization machine and sudden hit in a mega-wave over here.

I'm with you.

[karamae.livejournal.com]

I'm with you.
I'm not trying to assert an identity...
just trying to wear what I like...
which includes many different styles.
What other people do is their business.
True sincerety always shines through.

Varios parts of this thread taken and commented on ^_^

[calistrisa.livejournal.com]

I don't want to see the wonderful world of loliness get put through all that americanizing and de-lolitizing until its totally twisted around,

I hate to be the anti-christ here, but has anyone noticed that the Lolita fashion is just modernized versions of Victorian and Edwardian fashions? And in the past 3 Bibles (especially the one dedicated to London!) and #9, a lot of Western styles have been heavily influncing the Japanese "goth" fashion world? T-shirts and mini skirts, pleated skirts, long tiered skirts (which have been circulating the gothic-world since the 80s) and a plethora of other items that honestly started in the States or in Europe are just now finding their way to Japan.

*sigh* Like it or not, all interesting fashion movements tend to get Americanized, given enough time.
That is the thing about fashion and trends. They come, go, and are reworked to fit whatever a particular culture / time period sees fit. The EGL look is far from original. T-shirts and mini skirts are far from original either.

while they're taking what would have been an ideal loli dress, making the top so low cut you can practically see your waist

But that is what appeals to Westerners. We're not a subdue culture, we like to be daring, show flesh. Japan, for the most part, is still a conservative country.

Or at *least* call it by another name and *not* EGL or of the like.

I haven't heard any of the popular companies refer to their lines as "elegant gothic lolita" just lolita, or loli / lola. A lot of wanna-be EGL seamstresses online though, are the ones really bastardizing the fashions! Not owning a singl epiece from Japan and constructing them in ways that are unacceptable to my standards (poor fabric choice, cheap lace, and god awfully strewn together monstrosities).

Yes, the "pure EGL style" is being bastardized, but really, fashion is all about bastardizing, reviving, and recombining existing trends and themes to form new ones. A lot of the Japanese trends strike me as reinterpretations of western fashions. It goes back and forth.


I love you!

And finally..

We need to do all we can to keep it underground.

Why? Can most of you anti-"Americanization" Loli-fans honestly tell me you have or plan to have in the near future your collection of Lolita garb brought directly from the Japanese manufactuers? How many of you piece together stuff you find at the mall or thrist stores and wear it as your version of Lolita? If we keep it "underground" then most of you who love the style so much will never get to see a drop of it. I'm not trying to be rude, I really don't understand that mentality.

Yes, I own about $4,000 of EGL items from Japan (and you know what that consists of? Two short sleeve shirts, 1 long sleev (with detatchable sleeve) shirt, 3 skirts, 1 dress, a head band, socks, a waist cincher, gloves, and a petticoat. Yes, *all* of that for nearly 4K... it's not cheap!)

And despite the fact I do sew and make my own outfits, I would personally like to have access to non-square dance petticoats, frilly skirts and the shoes! Damn how I want pink shoes that *fit* me.

Of course, there will be people wearing the outfit in their own way... but what makes them bad people? I think it will facilitate an interest in our culture to go and study one abroad, gain an appreciation of Japan and where their current style came from.

Now, I go to work.

Re: Varios parts of this thread taken and commented on ^_^

[vetala.livejournal.com]

i really agree with your post here.

re: but has anyone noticed that the Lolita fashion is just modernized versions of Victorian and Edwardian fashions?

i've noticed. and i honestly don't know much about japan in the victorian era, but i don't think they dressed up the same way american and europe did during that time?

and i know when i was around the age of 16, i was really into dressing gothic victorian...all draped in velvet and bell sleeves. which seems to have turned into EGA.
and i loved wearing black and pink babydoll dresses even before then, during my grunge/courtney love days. sure it wasn't as frilly, but it's the same idea, same cut dresses with maryjane shoes. just now it's become more of a period costume, instead of more acceptable modern street wear.

to me the thing i really understand being upset about tho is that EGL and EGA has a certain elegant finishing school politeness to it. and i just don't want to see a bunch of nasty anne gwishes running around being rude towards everyone, including other EGL and EGA people.

i like to think that the hot topic t-shirts can be worn as more of a "band t-shirt" kind of thing. showing your tastes without having to dress up all out for it.

wow...i really went overboard on this post! lol!

[zoloft.livejournal.com]

Who died & made you the Loli-police? Who's to say who is & is not a "REAL cow fan"? What makes you a "real Lolita"?

What it all boils down to is this: some people just like hamburgers, whether the snHot Topic meatgrinder sells them or not. Some people really do like hamburgers *and* cows. Neither group of people has the slightest real impact on you, your life, or your ability to be a "real Lolita".

IOW, wear what you like, & don't worry so much about what other people are doing.

And I must say, I find this post to be rather ironic coming from someone who has "goth" in their user name but who doesn't appear to listen to any goth music. ;}

[memeloli.livejournal.com]

OOOOOoooook ppl you see what I think was trying to be said here wasnt "STOP LOLITAISM FROM COMING TO AMERICA!!!" i think its more of "IF YOU DO LOLITA IN AMERICA. DO IT RIGHT!!". Im in total aggeeance of keeping it underground for the sheer fact that America just hasnt got it right. Yes it came from an victorian-esg background but if you look through just about everything it has a background but what makes it good is to take that background and to completely bloom a very original beautiful idea from it. Most of us that are against this commercial use of lolita are against the misinterpretation of what "is" lolita in America. I mean you can say yeh there's a bunch of branches in Egl anyway BUT america hasnt dublicated ANY of those branches correctly.

[magenta-girl.livejournal.com]

i remember being indignant in college when "alternative" became the fashion, but i got over myself. after all, when subculture becomes mainstream, those adopting said subculture inevitably miss the point. look at punk. how many "punk rockers" today really understand the reasoning behind the fashion in the first place?
also, why does it really matter what other people are doing? it seems that everyone agrees that hot topic isn't going to do egl right, so why is everyone so worried? also, i don't really see what anyone can do to keep egl "underground." if it's being adopted by the mainstream, you kind of just have to let it run its course. unless you are willing and able to buy everything egl just to get it off the shelves, and then burn it or something. but that just seems like a losing battle.
i just think that all of this concern that people have about other people taking away something meaningful to them shows a lack of self-confidence. the other way to look at this is that it may introduce other people to egl, who will "get it," and who would otherwise never have known about it in the first place.

...

[shi-sama.livejournal.com]

Ladies, here is my humble opinion on the subject at hand.

::deep and hopefully patient breath::

Yes, Hot Topic is adopting the Lola-Goth fashion into their store. However, I am pretty sure that someone would be able to recognize the difference between EGL and Lola-Goth. And they are not trying to make EGL's everywhere look like sluts. They just don't sell innocent, cute clothing. And personally, I don't understand the vendetta goths everyehere (EGL, "real" goths (and I use the term loosely), and every other type of goth) has against the store in the first place. It's just a corporate buissness like every other. It's their job to bring trendy fashion to the public, not to understand the motivation behind them. As a consumer, if you disagree, you can always avoid shopping there.

As far as keeping EGL fashion "underground", that's simply a foolish idea all together. It makes it sound like the EGL community just wants to be an elite little society. Not to accuse anyone in this community of this fault, but American EGLs seem to be getting a bad wrap for being snobbish and rude. Taking a fit and trying to make EGL fashion exclusive seems to just propogate that reputation, not help it.

And thirdly, as far as the "just from Japan" battle goes. I'm sure a lot of Lolita's are not getting their frills and thrills just from Japan. I'm sorry, but if you make the same outfit for $20 that you can buy from Japan for $100, it doesn't make you any less of a Lolita. That's why the patterns are in the bibles.

Here's my advice. Let Hot Topic be, as they are just doing their job. Make your own outfits, or purchase them from and agreeable source. If you're true to the fashion in it's pure form, people will be able to tell the difference between you and a Lola-Goth, so there's really nothing to fret over. I really don't think that the Lola-Goth fashion will hit it that big in America anyway, so while it's here you'll be a trendsetter, and when it passes you'll be classic.

[ange-vole.livejournal.com]

I've been into the loli thing my whole life
(so honest - who can resist poofy skirts, ruffles and lace?).
BUT

There's nothing wrong with showing some cleavage,
and having your dress so short you cute ruffled pantiloons stick out *;D

Nothing makes me feel more adorable than having on a cute little short poofy crinoline, with poofy ruffled knickers underneath. It's also fun to playfully flash the boyfriend with them!!!!
heeee

But yes - I totally agree.
I was completely shocked when anime' became popular and then ever more so when lolis became popular.
I just hope it doesn't become constrewed!!!
But then again - if it does -
we'll ALWAYS look better *8)

Maybe we need a list (note the cute sarcasm in mocking other generas which do this) of things which are loli and which are not.
I vote that cheap satin like fabric is NOT loli!
*8P
heeee

Alright - I sush now *8)

cleavage

[everywednesday.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that most EGL fashion has sexual connotations, including the Japanese "original" form of the style. Maybe the Lip Service pieces are more heavy-handed with their more seductive silhouettes- i.e. the cleavage and short skirts- but I think those that Lolita fashion in its purest form is completely prim and innocent are um.. missing the point. Or at least overlooking massive undertones? C'mon.. if there was wasn't a sexual undertone to this style in the first place, would the word "Lolita" even be in the name?

IMHP

[ashna.livejournal.com]

Since when has EGL become right or wrong? I mean... in japan yes people tend to follow rather ridgid rules of dress.
You buy DIRECTLY from the magazine. You buy exactly what the model is wearing. There arn't as many sew it yourself people in japan. The japanese even with an odd and unushual fashion tend to comform.

Understand this about North America. We strive to be different. To shock. To being as varied and as unconformed as possible. That isn't a word is it? Anyways. So what if people take liberties with the fashion. We arn't japan. We strive to be different. Let people do what they want. I don't care. I think it's fun to see how people interpret the fashion.

If the fashion becomes a part of mainstream goth culture which is admitedly not very mainstream people. Seriously. Hey Then we'll be more like the lolita's of japan. So what!
Also there are ALOT of sexed up Lolita's in japan. Especially the older girls. Take your eyes off of the BTSSB and Angelic Pretty and look at the more gothic/punk stores. Hell look at my favorite store Putumayo and Victorian maiden! They have low cut, punky, short skirted, pleated, plaid, mainstream fashions! With a good dose of classic lolita that's all covered up.

Just chill out, have fun and stop moaning and groaning that your 'Pure' fashion is being corrupted.
We're a multifaceted society. Let people take inspiration where they want and wear what they like.

Re: IMHP

[agentscuiy.livejournal.com]

I beg to differ. Why would they include sewing patterns in the G&L Bibles if Japan wasn't a sew-it-yourself country? Yes, brand names are important, but if you look through street snaps you will find that a LOT of people make their own clothes. The model Maimu, who worked her way off the street snaps to having her own clothing line, she made almost all of her stuff.

Also, the main way of acquiring clothes is not from buying directly from the magazine. They started having a catalogue section in the more recent issues, but it has limited items. It's mainly for really lazy people, or girls who live far away in the boonies of Japan, away from the stores.

But yes, I agree with you that everyone needs to chill out. They don't own the fashion and are bastardizing it in their own little ways, not realizing what hypocrites they are.

I understand.

[splitpea.livejournal.com]

A lot of girls here are saying that they want Hot Topic to burn in hell (not directly, but that's what it all adds up to)

Others are saying that they like Hot Topic

Others are saying that they don't give a flapping ribbon WHAT Hot Topic does.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I go with the flapping ribbon crowd.

YES it is upsetting to be into something and go through a year or more of seeing people claiming to be what they're not. But, fact is, people will be people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My whole life I've unknowingly been a goth girly, and when I finally realized that people like me had a label, I was kind of happy. You know you've all felt a twinge of joy when you found out that what you are or were had a real name and you weren't floating around, alienated from the world.

When I found Hot Topic, I was happy. Cheap CDs of my favorite bands, Cheap pants that look like the things I'd been designing in my notebooks, Bracelets like I've been trying to make for years. Hot Topic actually USED to be underground (for a little while, anyway). You couldn't get ANYONE to set foot in that store when it FIRST appeared. So, they had to do some campaigning. That meant PUSHING their wares into the mainstream.

I don't shop there for clothing anymore (the pants fall apart too fast and that's really all I ever wanted clothing-wise). I get my music there, though. I don't agree with the t-shirts that have "Goth-Loli" or whatever they say written across the front, because that's not part of the style. I know we wear t-shirts, but being part of a subculture is not about putting a sticker on your chest to let people know what you are. It's about showing them what you are in how you act, what you like, what you want, and what you wear.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Be secure in your individuality. Know that when the Lola-Goth style is being flushed down the toilet and Hot Topic drops all those icky shirts and skirts and dresses off at a warehouse to rot. YOU will still have your petticoats and sweet charm.

You were doing it first.
You will be doing it in the end.

THEY are Lola-Goths.
You ARE an Elegant Gothic Lolita.

Re: I understand.

[goth-girlie.livejournal.com]

I love you ^_^

<3

[eurolymius.livejournal.com]

Why shouldn't fucking Hot Topic embrace EGL?
Japan has raped the industry and almost all available EGL-inspired fashion is the product of corporate scheme. I'm serious. So what's the big deal, at least it's not at fucking Urban Outfitters.

I give Hot Topic a chance because really, people who shop there are looking for some sort of "alternative" escape and why not let them have it. Stop giving a shit what other people do and pay attention to yourself, making sure that you are honest and are open-minded.

EGL has been ripped off, and manufactured way more than just Hot Topic, so please. Instead of freaking out, just don't buy there.

As for Lip Service, well that's their own thing and they've always been somewhat creative. I think you're expecting too much genuity.

[eurolymius.livejournal.com]

Everything that exists is mainstream. If you like it, I guarantee that there is a group already devoted to it. And possibly some marketing scheme in the works.

[iamdollface.livejournal.com]

I don't get worked up over Hot Topic (tho' I do know people who have had their design "appropriated" by Hot Topic with no compensation). However, and please don't hit when I say this, I really don't have much feeling for any of the Western Gothic Lolita stuff. Granted, I am a lable sucker no matter if I'm buying Anna Sui or Betty's Blue. I like it to be the real thing, especially since I don't doll-up and go all the way. I like aspects of the fashion that are more related to certain designers then the fad as a whole. But, if everyone else is knocking off a Gothic Style, you know Hot Topic is going to jump the banwagon.....

Hot Topic/ Fine

[everywednesday.livejournal.com]

Hey guys- I was just looking back through yesterday's posts, and I read the one about the "lolagoth"(?) drawing/ character that was ripped off by FINE. Just to add my two cents.. and I don't know whether my pictures will work or no- last year shortly after I graduated I started doing freelance illustration, and I wanted to get involved with T-Shirtgraphics and stuff. I sent some samples of my work to Fine, and they got in touch with me, said they liked the work but had no appropriate projects right at the moment. Their Marketing person, I think it was, wrote me and said I could put them on my mailing list so my work would stay in their minds and they'd get in touch with me if something came up. So.. in October last year, I started doing my own T-shirt line, on a very small scale, sent out a mass e-mail to all my contacts with photos of the shirts to promote them.. here's my artwork-

http://www.lealandeve.com/bicyclelg.htm

and then about 2 months later, I stopped by Hot Topic, and saw this shirt by Fine, with their Ruby Gloom Character

http://image.inkfrog.com/click_enlarge1.php?image=tshirts_008.jpg&username=tra911


I don't know-I mena, they are similar but not exactly, but when I saw it in the store, I gave a little jump. I'm still not sure whether it was just coincidental, and it doesn't really matter, 'cause that's how fashion goes. I kind of think elements of the composition were perhaps "inspired" by my drawing, although of course the Ruby Gloom character is all them.
What do you guys think?;)

Re: Hot Topic/ Fine

[calistrisa.livejournal.com]

I really don't think Fine ripped anyone off. They have their own artists who work for them and design styles for them. That shirt really doesn't look like your character, she's on a bike and has stripey tights... but the resemblance ends there. ^_^;;; But I can see where you may have thought it was "inspired"... still, from someone who has worked in retail and been the purchaser for a comic store (and dealt hevaily in tshirt sales) designs and concepts are usually up for pre-orders at least a year in advance. For a company to do a turn-a-round in 2 months time is nothing short of impossible. Especially when Hot Topic does not do individual store orders, a group of people out in California make the decisions of what the stores will carry on a quarterly manner. (My knowledagable retail friend is saying even twice a year they do their ordering). Maybe that gives you some peace of mind. ^_^

[koualecia.livejournal.com]

I guess it's time for me to say something. *evil cackle hack hack choke wheeze* *stands back up and straightens herself out*

Okay. So, it seems Lolita is hitting Hot Topic. I don't really think they'll care whether or not we stop buying from them. I mean, sure. There are going to be those annoying people who are going to run around in their clothes, but let's face it. Hot Topic and other mainstream stores are gonna get what they can to make money. It's all for the green. They don't care what they sell or don't sell, as long as it does just that - sells.

I agree with a comment made earlier. Who are we to decide what real lolita is? Most of us don't even live in Japan where we got the inspiration for the outfits. So, aren't we, to Japan, the Hot Topic of lolita? There is no real lolita, just a bunch of girls who like to dress in pink or black frills in a conservative fashion. Do we really want to sound like those snobby elitests we were against in an earlier post? I'm sorry, my friends, but with posts such as these and bashing posts...this community is beginning to go sour. We're forgetting our lolita roots. I may not wear lolita all the time, or have a bunch of lolita clothing, but I do enjoy the fashion. So, maybe these new people will as well. Why would I take that from them? Because they're not "real" lolitas? Well, then, you might as well take the fashion away from me, as well, for I'm not a "real" lolita, either. I don't wear it all the time. In fact, I have quite a few items from Hot Topic. (Their shoes, though spendy, are fabulous, y'know?) But I'm not trying to come off as a superior lolita, either. So, I don't think we should campaign against it or anything. We just need to realize one very important aspect of lolita and follow it:

Manners and respect.

Lolita is not just about the fashion, but the personality. Aren't we supposed to be sweet and courteous to other people, in fact? So, outraging against a store that's not even going to listen to us is a bit ridiculous and very un-lolita.

You guys can do what you want...but me? I'm just gonna let them have their way. I may not like it, but you don't have to voice your every opinion on something, now do you? Let people have their fun. It'll pass.

And as far as "underground" goes...how do we manage to do that when we've already been parading around in our lolita outfits? Nothing stays underground forever, loves.

Now, all of these statements were of my own opinion, therefore nobody is entitled to agree or believe in them.

I guess those are my two cents...oh well.

[batwinged.livejournal.com]

I'm just stopping in to say that anything I could have possibly said in regards to this post, and any opinion I might have expressed, has been thoroughly done so already.

I'm so proud.

Basically, any and every scene worth it's salt goes through the process of being mainstreamed. It's pointless to even try to prevent it, let alone actually want to in the end.

Because after all, if Hot Topic weren't there we'd all have to sit around waiting for Halloween season just to have striped tights.

And believe you me, I remember when that was exactly what we all did...

[zoloft.livejournal.com]

::applauds::

I remember when we couldn't even get stripey tights at Hallowe'en... but we were all stoked about the cheap fishnets. ;D

[deg-chick.livejournal.com]

>.> I just want to say is that I am new to dressing up as a Lolita but I have been following it for quite some time(mostly Mana xD) and all I want to say is that I really don't want EGL big in America. I LOVE being different from all the rest of the people music wise and fashion. SO if EGL goes big...well I really don't know what I will do. Its getting pretty annoying seein all those Punk and normal goth posers out there.

[goth-girlie.livejournal.com]

*pats you on the back* ^_^ I totally feel you.

Ne, mind if I add you to my friends list, fellow mana-lovah? ~.^

A little off the subject but....

[memeloli.livejournal.com]

I cant be the only tiny person who has had a very hard time finding things at Hottopic anyways. I mean litterally maybe the only thing i CAN get are those strippy stockings.... of course they come up to my boobs but whatever. I guess The whole EGL thing is so near and dear to my heart cuz to me (and this is just in my opinion on why i love it) I got to be the little doll i was always being compared to before only now its more of a compliment then a short little weird girl thing. So the thought of the exact ppl who made fun of me being able to wear the same stuff just becuz "they saw it at hottopic" is definately a tad bit of an annoyance. I mean but i hear you guys that say let it go cuz you'll know your an original and i will do my best to try.

it wouldnt last...

[delicious-souls.livejournal.com]

IM WITH YOU! haha

i agree witt the lovely lady that said this:
Lolita is not just about the fashion, but the personality

i would hate to see it become mainstream, cause, like i said- america turns everything into a huge silly fashion trend and i think japan handles the fashion alot better than america will...
i lvoe lolita because of the fashion style, but there is also a purpose and a personal reason why i dress that way

america wouldnt see it that way-theyd see it as the "next big thing"

and which by the way, my friend stated- im pretty it wouldsnt get big in america anyway- think about it, what the majority of america gets off on is half naked girls prancing around in skimpy putfits- thats not what lolita is.lolita is being sexy with showing less (well, it can be- for me , at least)

and i dont think that america would be able to understand or grasp the essence of the true gothic lolita

Re: it wouldnt last...

[memeloli.livejournal.com]

*bows at the words put so wonderfully* I mean As i posted earlier on here most of us arent against Americans getting a hold of the fashion anyways were against Americans misinterpriting it and not doing it right. or in other words "america wouldnt be able to understand or grasp the essence of the true gothic lolita".

[junnokoneko.livejournal.com]

It seems we're assuming that 'lolagoth' will become really big or something o.o;;;
It might not you know? A *lot* of my girls my age (18) refuse to wear dresses around here. (They prefer short shorts instead >>;;)
Even the 'goth' girls don't wear skirts. They wear huuuuuge pants with lots of holes and straps in them.. so.. what if it doesn't even become so 'big' as to have lots of posers? I don't even see the wednesday addams or kinderwhore look around here. I don't see it becoming so popular, really.
Anywho~
I've never been inside a hot topic, so I can't say really anything about it. All I can really say is.. keep the fashion true to yourself. Don't worry about other peoples' views of it, but as long as *you're* embody-ing your true sense of gosurori, that should be all that matters. (this goes for style and manners! If you want to look at it one way, the called 'posers' probably wouldn't worry about manners ^_^)
..weren't we just dicusssing the elite american egls and how we shouldn't become 'elites'? o_o; But yet wanting to keep it underground is not elitist? @_@

Hypocrite

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, but you see how you are being a hypocrite? (Yes I am American, and I'm damn proud too.) You call yourself Goth therefore meaning you're a poser. Same with punks, they call themselves punks, they're obviously posers. For we must remove posers from the all mighty gene pool. For only those who put themselves into groups by saying that they are punk, gothic, ect. Are truly only posers, bringing the true culture of punk and goth ect. to a new level of shame.

Re: Hypocrite

[koualecia.livejournal.com]

Well, where did you come from, my darling little anonymous?

I'm not going to start a fight with you, but certainly if you wanted to have a fair debate you would put your name out there.

Now, listen to me. These "posers", you call them...I'm sorry the "true" goths and punks have dropped to a level of immaturity to wag fingers at the "fake" goths and punks and call them these shameful little counterfits of the "real" deal. Why should it matter? It's not like there's a certain test you have to take to become such a thing. No; isn't punk and goth trying to be different than everybody else? To do what nobody else dares to do? When we set these levels; these bars, accusing these people of being hypocrites, then don't we become one, ourself?

What should it matter? It is all just clothing...it will not matter when we grow up. So, why should we all make such a huge deal over something that is just for fun? A hobby? A look? Clothing, for goodness sakes. Who cares if someone is the "real" thing. How do you define the true goths/punks from the "posers"? Is there a written test? Is there a definition in stone? No. There is not, and there never will be, because it is a fashion industry. Who really cares who is real and posers? If the people are happy, isn't that what matters? Why rob people of their happiness by pointing and calling them posers, fakes, thieves?

I, myself, do not give myself a label. But for this certain community, I will dare give the clothing I wear a name. A category. Elegant gothic lolita. I'm sorry you think we are such a dreadfully shameful bunch...perhaps you best not come knocking next time? That way you don't have to be embarrassed by our clothing choice.

I'm sorry we have to "shame" you by our choice of clothing.

[murasaki-majo.livejournal.com]

I'm not concerned.

It's always rather depressing to see great styles get butchered and mass-produced by the mainstream, but it happens to every established "scene" eventually. But there will always be a difference between the posers who only dress that way because it's the latest thing in Hot Topic, and the people who genuinely love and are dedicated to the style.

Oh, and as for gothic lolita fashion not being "sexual"... you've gotta be kidding me. It has one of the strongest sexual undercurrents of any fashion scene. Just the fact that you have fully mature young ladies dressing up as cute little girls says something right there. ^_~ There's nothing at all wrong with "sexy" lolita clothes. I do agree that sluttiness has no place in egl fashion though... but there's a big difference between sexiness and sluttiness.

[goth-girlie.livejournal.com]

I do agree that sluttiness has no place in egl fashion though... but there's a big difference between sexiness and sluttiness.

Amen ^_^

[darkfaeryqueen.livejournal.com]

Just relax. Well, most of what I was thinking about the EGL style has already been said. I mean, it's just a syle that people wear and interpret in their own individual ways. Maybe it's because people in college are a lot less uptight about who's wearing what.

I'm sick of people complaining about Hot Topic. Ok, I agree that they have a lot of poorly constructed clothes, and I could make better versions of virtually everything there. But they do have some cool stuff...like where else are you going to find tons of Amy Brown and Brian Froud merchandise besides their websites? And Fine is sold at lots of other stores besides Hot Topic, as well as other brands, yet you people only seem to have a problem with them when they're purchased at Hot Topic. My main point with this part is don't degrade a store just because they're making certain things popular. They're a business. It's their job. Maybe once you get a bit older or learn something about the world, you'll figure out that businesses have to do certain things to survive. Whether or not you shop there is your decision, but don't shun those who choose differently. And I'm sure you and the "real" lolis are not the only people who shop at the stores where you do shop.

Trends come and go. A few months from now, all these people will have something else to try to be, and we'll all still be dressing the same way. Don't stress yourself over it. It's really no big deal.