silly silly question!

[fechan.livejournal.com]

Hello!

I've been reading one particular past entry (the one about country lolita/ amai lolita/etc) and this as awakened a question in my mind! (oh surprise :P)

Actually, I was wondering if anyone could explain to me all the lolita styles? (I hope I'm not asking too much ^^; ) I've read a bit about it here and there, but I've seen some contradictory information and different names for similar styles ;__; Therefore, I'm always a bit confused when people refer to styles by all theses different names...

Excuse my ignorance ;)

Comments

[kurzeshaar.livejournal.com]

well, I hope this will help...but I'm not that great at explaining stuff...^^;;;

Well EGL, or elegant gothic lolita, is normally characterized with the baby doll dresses, petticoats, frills, lace, etc. EGL's usually wear dark colors, but white lace is common. However, a common misconception among some people is the term "gothic" in the name...*not sure where ur from* but most people think that egl reflects american gothic wear, but they definately don't.
Also, egl's don't usually wear a lot of makeup, sometimes red lipstick and light black eyeliner, but not a lot

Sweet Lolita, or Country Lolita is basically the same as EGL except instead of dark colors, white, pinks, baby blues, sometimes light greens, and other pastel colors are worn. In my opinion, sweet lolitas try to emphasize cuteness even more than egl =b

Then there's the EGA, or elegant gothic aristocrat, style. EGA's usually wear long skirts, bustles, high-collared blouses, and top hats *as opposed to the head dresses worn by sweet lolitas and egl's* They definately mirror the Victorian look more than EGL's.

Then another style is Kodona. The kodona look is for guys. It's harder to describe, but kodona usually wear frilly blouses, top hats, and sometimes carry big bags. It's basically egl for guys.

Pictures:

Sweet Lolita Dress (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/whitepinafore1.jpg)
EGL (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/lolitadress.jpg)
egl dress (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/shirtapron6.jpg)
another egl dress (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/dress1.jpg)
an EGA (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/ega.jpg)
a top hat (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/sacrifice_1.jpg)
a kodona (http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/fushigichan/lolitakodona.jpg)

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

aah! thank you so much for the picture reference!!
You're not bad at explaning at all! thanks! I understand better now ^^; I had no ieda what was kodona ^^;;;

though I was wondering if there was a name for more punkish lolita style? like MA or h.naoto or even Black Peace Now?

Re:

[porcelainrage.livejournal.com]

The more punkish lolita style is called Industrial Lolita.

Ano ne...

[morgen-stern.livejournal.com]

You've made one mistake though, EGL is not supposed to be used as a blanket term for *all* Gothic Lolita. Elegant is the term Mana-sama coined before his versions of Gothic Lolita and Gothic Aristocrat, it refers to the lines in his brands and is meant to distinguish them from the rest of Lolidom. Misuse of the terms Elegant Gothic Lolita and Elegant Gothic Aristocrat, and their corresponding acronyms, this way hurts Moitie's brand distinction. Please use care.

Re: Ano ne...

[fechan.livejournal.com]

So, if I understand correctly, it's like:
gothic lolita, which is dark lolita
Gothic aristocrat, which is the same thing as ega, explained earlier
and THEN, there's egl which is a term only used to refer to Moi-même moitié clothing?

so this means this community is mainly about Mana's clothing?

Re: Ano ne...

[morgen-stern.livejournal.com]

Elegant Gothic Aristocrat, EGA, is also Mana's term. Gothic Aristocrat is the generic term. And I don't know the original intentions of the previous list owner, but I have suspicions that she simply was making the same mistake and using EGL as a blanket term for all GL fashion, improperly. It's the same thing as calling all in-line skates "Rollerblades." Rollerblade is a brand, not a type of skate, and they've been fighting an up-hill battle against the misuse of their name for a long time.

You see, if a brand name gets used as a generic term long enough, the original owner loses the claim to their copyright by default. This has happened to brands like cellophane, and hotchkis staplers in Japan. So I ask that all Lolis, Aristos, Dandys and Kodona take a little consideration and put a bit more effort into using proper terms and language.

Re: Ano ne...

[xelyna.livejournal.com]

It seems that people just use "EGL" and "EGA" because it's an easy-to-read acronym, not because it means the right thing. None of the bibles or Japanese people I've spoken to actually put the "Elegant" before the "Gothic Lolita" unless they're talking about Man's brand in particular.
To confuse things even further, Mana's EGL dresses usually come in both black AND white version! And yet he doesn't call one Sweet and the other Gothic! Ah, Mana-sama, how you love to mess with our minds^^;;

[kireipanda.livejournal.com]

gothic refers to the historical time period the clothes are based on rather than the common modern conception of the word. the lolita parts is meant to indicate that it is basically little girls (and in some cases boys) fashion from the victorian/gothic period. hence the reason why only the lolita part changes (to aristocrat) in EGA because it still elegant and gothic but its more like the adult styles they would have worn back then.

I personally have never been able to figure out why sweet/amai lolita is also referred to as country. Maybe because it bears some resemblance to dollier square dance dresses? *confused*

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

gothic refers to the historical time period the clothes are based on rather than the common modern conception of the word.

I knew the gothic in egl wasn't for the modern conception, but it never occured to me it was inspired by the gothic era ^^;; thanks! (even though i spent one semester studying this period in college ^^;; )

I personally have never been able to figure out why sweet/amai lolita is also referred to as country. Maybe because it bears some resemblance to dollier square dance dresses? *confused*

Yeah, I somehow thought it might come from the square dancing dresses ^^; some are sooo sweet lolita-ish!

Re:

[horsey5588.livejournal.com]

I always thought that 'country lolita' referred to the gingham patterns, and 'sweet lolita' referred to the pastel colors. ^_^

Re:

[totodedum.livejournal.com]

the term "country" comes from the prints that those particular lolitas wear. it's different from but closely related to "sweet" lolitas. basically a "country lolita" would wear nice flowery/plaid/gingham type fabrics while "sweet lolitas" would wear pastel/white/candy prints (etc...) kind of fabrics.

you can also tell by the acessories that they carry or wear. a sweet lolita would wear mostly headresses for the most part, carry cute frilly bags or totes with pretty parasols. country lolitas often wear bows instead of headresses, have whicker-like bags (like a picnic baskets almost) and sometimes have those cute wooden-looking like shoes on their feet. oh..and sometimes the cut of the dresses, blouses, and skirts tend to bare more skin and is more of a summer look.

mind you...this is just what i've noticed so i'm not 100% sure... ^^; hope this helps! =^__^=

Re:

[marle777.livejournal.com]

The problem (or should I say confusion) here is that country lolita is a western invented term. It's not used by the Japanese at all as far as I know. Sweet lolita covers the ginghams, flowers, etc. Basically anything cute is amai (sweet) lolita and the more victorian looking items are classic lolita and the black, darker themes are gothic lolita and so on. ^__^

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

pwee!
So what you're saying is that amai and country is the same exact thing??
*starting to get confused @_@*

Re:

[marle777.livejournal.com]

^__^ I don't mean to cause any confusion. Sorry! ^^; I'm saying that country lolita is a term made up by us westerners and I'm pretty certain it happened because we didn't know the proper terminology until someone from Japan informed us. But by then the words 'country lolita' were already in widespread use throughout the communities.

So there is no country lolita. If it's cute, sugary, flowery or whatever, it's Sweet Lolita. That's it, easy as pie! ^__^

Re:

[marle777.livejournal.com]

For further info, this confusing stuff was also covered in a recent post; here's the link: Country vs. Sweet Lolita (http://www.livejournal.com/community/egl/626209.html)

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

yeah actually when I said a particular post in my question i was speaking of that post :)

Re:

[totodedum.livejournal.com]

wow! so basically any terms like "neo-gothic", "industrial", and "country lolita" that we use to break them down to subcategories are all western invented? lol! we really are an anal bunch, aren't we? =^o^=

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

aaahhh! more terms I don't know about!! ahhh!! then thoses sub-categories don't really exist??
aahhh! *runs around in circles*
nooo there's still so much i don't understand!!

Re:

[marle777.livejournal.com]

Neo-gothic is a correct term, industrial and country are pretty much western terms. ^__^ I don't mean to be anal though (and I apologize if I come across that way). I just want to get the correct info out there so there's less confusion in the end.

Re:

[totodedum.livejournal.com]

oh, nonononono!! i didn't mean to say that you're anal! i meant westerners as a whole! ^__^ but thank you for clarifying about neo-gothic--now i know and it's very much appreciated!

about subcategories: although technically there isn't any terminology to break down the slight variances between gothic lolita, sweet lolita, etc... i think it's a good thing. ^^; that way if a particular person is going for a particular look, all those western terms could be used to pinpoint exactly the kind of style that they want. ^___^ although i admit, they could be a little bit confusing, hehehe...^^;

Re:

[fechan.livejournal.com]

ooh thank you! <3
I somehow noticed that what people called country lolita seemed to have different prints than the sweet lolita, but I wasn't sure it was connected! thanks again!

[marle777.livejournal.com]

To clear up any confusion whatsoever, all of the G&L styles are accurately covered here Crosses and Petticoats Style List (http://www.frozen-spring.net/crosses/styles.html) with one exception; Classic Lolita. That is the more victorian, elegant styled lolita attire. (oh and I feel the picture for EGL might be a bit on the sweet side really, but I'm sure you get the gist of it) =^__^=

[uglylittlewhore.livejournal.com]

Tenshi-kei--"angel look." Akuma-kei--"devil look." (?) I think this refers especially to the cute "counterparts" you see in the Bibles a lot--where one girl is in all white, with cute fluffy accessories, and the other girl is in all black, and they pose together. This is just off the top of my head, though; I could be wrong. ^^;;

[serpentbearer.livejournal.com]

It's certainly a pretty confusing subject. As someone else said, part of the confusion is because it seems us westerners have imposed some of the genre names, so there often seems to be a lot of disagreement over which bits belong to which style. I think this is compounded by the way in which, in my experience, people seem to come to the lolita style from different ends of the spectrum. For instance, I identify as goth, and I like the darker stuff but probably wouldn't wear florals or pastels, whereas someone who wasn't a goth and liked the more 'sweet' look might think other elements are more influential (I say might!)

I think by the use of the word 'gothic' this implies there is an element of 'goth' style as opposed to the word being used in the sense of 'gothic art/architecture'.
Although I believe Gothic art and architecture were popular in the Victorian period, the era properly described as Gothic was in the Middle Ages. OTOH, the modern use of the term 'gothic' is probably influenced by both the Gothic period and by Victorian 'Gothic' literature, so I think Gothic as a historical term and 'gothic' as in goth are both influences on certain types of loli fashion.

Another reason for confusion I think is because many of us are using the Gothic & Lolita Bibles as a basis for our definitions. The title is exactly that, Gothic & Lolita; I have all the bibles except vol. 2 and looking through them, you see a mix of both loli and more typically goth styles of dress (as well as punky items from Union Jack etc). There have been features in some of the Bibles of Japanese goth and fetish nights. But the full title is a bit of a mouthful (or should that be keyboardful!) so it's usually abbreviated to GLB. This then seems to imply that the title is Gothic Lolita Bible (dropping the '&') which probably fudges the issue somewhat. Again, someone else pointed out that the terms Elegant Gothic Lolita/Aristocrat were coined by Mana for his own clothing line, but those acronyms are very convenient!