(no subject)

[dichroicynosure.livejournal.com]

A few interesting tid-bits came out of the article I mentioned in an earlier post in the German goth mag "Sonic Seducer" on Japanese Underground. I had my partner translate it at the grocery store today and apparently part of the underground fashion culture there is obsessive about German Nazi era stuff and mixes items of Nazi uniforms with pinks and pastels. I hadn't heard of that in Japan. I guess most of the images that I have seen aren'T focused on those aspects of fashion. I don't think that in Japan dressing with a faux Hitler mustache and the like is done the same way, or with the same intent, that kids in the US or in Europe do it that is, with the neo-Nazi ideas, I think that they just play with things that shock and are outrageous--like the ultra post-modernists that they are. It's still a little scary in my opinion though. What do you all think? That was news to me.

Also, the article mentioned the lack of affiliation between a gothic/dark music scene, morbidity etc and the Gothic Lolis and gothic fashion there---which is intimately connected with the Goth sub culture here (US/Norway/Germany). That really wasn't news to me--but the fact that tattoos are shunned was. I guess Japan has some really strict rules governing what skin you can show if you do have one. I also learned that public displays of affection, even touching noses, can result in a fine! My eyes are opening!

Comments

[avant-gauche.livejournal.com]

In Japan Tattoos are still very much a sign that you're a yakuza (gansta) thats why they shunned and looked down on.

[loqia.livejournal.com]

The association is so strong they had a special ad campaign during the Soccer World Cup the other year, telling the local Japanese not to be alarmed if their bars were suddenly flooded by tattooed Englishmen, and that tattoos were common in the West, and it wasn't an invasion of Organised Crime.

[nymphie.livejournal.com]

I think I remember seeing one of the guys from Dir En Grey wearing a Nazi uniform of sorts. Complete with Swastica. I think it would have been cute to make it go clockwise so it was a symbol for Buddhism (if he was a Buddhist).

I saw that too...

[splitpea.livejournal.com]

...I still don't know what to make of it. I'm black and I live in America and everytime I see someone wearing a rebel flag (no matter what race) I turn on my heel and head the other way. I'm sure swasticas would get similar reactions from certain people.

Re: I saw that too...

[aitreni.livejournal.com]

The Nazi stuff in visual kei doesn't mean anything, it's just fashion. To Japanese people there's none of the emotional impact or relevance the symbols have in Western countries. Even Americans, also geographically removed, are more attuned to the significance of the swastika. There are lots of Jewish people in the US and we've learned to be respectful of their feelings. But to Japanese kids, it's just history book stuff from another country. I don't think their cluelessness justifies the use of Nazi symbolism, it's stupid and offensive any way you look at it. BUT on the other hand they're not actually trying to be neo-Nazis, they're just ignorant kids following fashion.

It doesn't matter much though... the trend's already over. Nobody's been wearing Nazi stuff in visual kei for a couple of years. ^^

Re: I saw that too...

[(Anonymous)]

Lest we forget, Japan was aligned with Nazi Germany. I do agree with your statement that it does not have the cultural relevance/significance that most Americans & Jewish people hold to the swastika.

Some of the "punx" kids are still wearing the swastika. *shakes head*

[loqia.livejournal.com]

You've got to remember, western Punk has a long history of using Nazi symbols to shock. Sid Vicious of Sex Pistols fame especially was notorious for wearing a red shirt with a giant honking great swastika on in. Siousxie Siou, the Catwoman 'groupie' of the Pistols and later singer in early goth band Siousxie and the Banshees, used to come to concerts with a swastika eyelinered in on her cheek. These people weren't Nazis or skinheads; it was designded to shock, pure and simple. (I'm not going to get into any arguments as to its appropriateness either, just accept that it was.)

Japan might have allied themselves with the Nazis at the end of WWII, but it's doubtful that the Japanese associate the swastika with Nazism on any level bar a kind of detached historical intellectualism. Their atrocities during WWII are a kind of 'historical taboo' in Japan ("don't mention the war"). There was a movie made about it a few years ago which stirred up a storm (Red Devils I think). The second thing is that in the East, the connection between Buddhism and the swastika is about as strong as the West's connection of the same symbol (blah blah reversed) to Nazism. You've got to remember, in the East and West the swastika is an ancient symbol of protection. It's just fallen out of favour here for obvious reasons.

So... yeah. I don't know that this really had a point. So I will be quiet now...

[lithia-black.livejournal.com]

Being a uniform fetishist, I really think the naziuniforms are very stylish, but I don't support the people who wears them with all the symbols. I saw a guy at the local fetish club who wore one, complete with armties, but instead of the swastika, he had left the circle blank. That way I think uniforms work as fashion, without the political symbols attached.

/L

[milkypop.livejournal.com]

Yeah, weren't they designed by Prada?

[aqui.livejournal.com]

I have long been fond of certain aspects of Nazi uniforms mixed with modern goth-style outfits...although I've mostly seen it associated with bondage sadomasochism. Take this character (http://www.shoujorobot.com/quiz/seraph/attim.html), for example. I couldn't find a good full-body picture, but she wears an awesome long red coat. Not sure what she wears beneath that, if anything, but I'm sure you can imagine. :3

Now, I was aware that public displays of affection were taboo in Japan...but I'd no idea couples could actually be FINED for it! :O That's horrible! My mate and I would never survive without being able to cuddle... Hmph. No trip to Japan for us! *scowls*

Heh, thanks for the info, BTW.

[aitreni.livejournal.com]

I'm living in Japan right now and while I don't know anything about such a law, I do know that nobody's being hauled off by police for smooching on the train platform. The older generation might disapprove of PDAs, but a lot of young people don't care and do it anyway. Times are changing.

[aqui.livejournal.com]

Huh. Yeah, I thought it seemed odd. Thank you! I really want to travel parts of Japan once I learn the language. :3